BB defend NLCASH

[cwar]

I have no idea what this discussion is about anymore.

[creedofhubris]

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I have no idea what this discussion is about anymore.

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Going back to OP: why do you fold your BB so much in your HU video, since you're making it correct for your opponent to open with 72o.

[PrimordialAA]

lol... it is NOT correct for his opp to raise 72o... your making foolish math seem like a reality, if he widens his 3bet range even just slightly, and keeps his std. OTB range, he will be dominating any opp who is opening w/ 72o, even w/only mediocre post flop play, nobody can mindlessly open top 75 and be very profitable against a solid player, if your widening ranges you should NOT be making your CALLING RANGE OOP too wide, this is awful, and will allow your opponent to exploit a ton of additional chips from you you don't need to let go...

[BCM11]

miss lippie's car is green.

[creedofhubris]

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lol... it is NOT correct for his opp to raise 72o... your making foolish math seem like a reality, if he widens his 3bet range even just slightly, and keeps his std. OTB range, he will be dominating any opp who is opening w/ 72o, even w/only mediocre post flop play, nobody can mindlessly open top 75 and be very profitable against a solid player, if your widening ranges you should NOT be making your CALLING RANGE OOP too wide, this is awful, and will allow your opponent to exploit a ton of additional chips from you you don't need to let go...

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You need to play more than 25% of hands to beat mr. 72 raiser. Whether you reraise 25% and call 0% or reraise 10% and call 15%, as long as you are only playing 25% of your hands it's correct for him to raise 72o to 3 BBs.

[PrimordialAA]

PREFLOP it may be correct, but when you DO call or reraise you'll a) be getting alot more credit (typically), making it VERY easy to play alot of flops, good or bad for your hand. The goal isn't to take away all his equity pre-flop, I mean 3betting all 25% or not isn't going to build pots against too many weaker hands, however post flop is where the big pots will get built, and he is going to be playing ALOT of hands with very poor reverse implied odds and also find himself in many tricky situations with weak kickers, middle pairs, etc., if he is raising almost ATC then widening your calling range should NOT be your best solution, you need to build pots with solid hands, and exploit his aggressiveness, as most ATC raisers will be c-betting very frequently, as the blinds increase this will become increasingly expensive for them, as will just 3x'n pots preflop as the blinds escalate, but widening your PF calling range is not going to exploit his tendencies too much when your OOP it's hard to do this vs. a decent player, you need to look at maximum EV decisions, not just +EV, I mean we can argue all day by you saying "But it'll be GOOD FOR HIM Pre-Flop!!!" , however , again, you can adapt to him but it shouldn't be by calling more OOP, play a solid game til 25/50 or 50/100 and then make your 3bet range and calling range wider than 25%, then all of a sudden in a few hands you can be up a huge amount of chips... I dunno, im being dragged away from the comp by my g/f, but let's get more discussion this, I am saying it is not the correct way to adapt to most ATC raisers like that

[creedofhubris]

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PREFLOP it may be correct, but when you DO call or reraise you'll a) be getting alot more credit (typically), making it VERY easy to play alot of flops, good or bad for your hand. The goal isn't to take away all his equity pre-flop, I mean 3betting all 25% or not isn't going to build pots against too many weaker hands, however post flop is where the big pots will get built, and he is going to be playing ALOT of hands with very poor reverse implied odds and also find himself in many tricky situations with weak kickers, middle pairs, etc., if he is raising almost ATC then widening your calling range should NOT be your best solution, you need to build pots with solid hands, and exploit his aggressiveness, as most ATC raisers will be c-betting very frequently, as the blinds increase this will become increasingly expensive for them, as will just 3x'n pots preflop as the blinds escalate, but widening your PF calling range is not going to exploit his tendencies too much when your OOP it's hard to do this vs. a decent player, you need to look at maximum EV decisions, not just +EV, I mean we can argue all day by you saying "But it'll be GOOD FOR HIM Pre-Flop!!!" , however , again, you can adapt to him but it shouldn't be by calling more OOP, play a solid game til 25/50 or 50/100 and then make your 3bet range and calling range wider than 25%, then all of a sudden in a few hands you can be up a huge amount of chips... I dunno, im being dragged away from the comp by my g/f, but let's get more discussion this, I am saying it is not the correct way to adapt to most ATC raisers like that

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Eh, I'm viewing it from a cash perspective where the blinds never increase and chipping away at someone 100% riskfree because they fold too much is a valid strategy.

I agree that villain can get trapped into playing some marginal hands OOP, but *even if he mucks as soon as you make the call preflop* he makes money; any actual EV from the postflop pot is just gravy.

[ChicagoRy]

I think creed is also saying a smart player raising ATC against that raising range.

A defense of a question is not "well he'll suck at another part of the game so it doesn't matter."

[TheFan83]

I personally wouldnt cbet almost at all vs someone whos calling range is so strong. Take a freecard and gain even more equity. I would bet my good hands and make some bluffbets of course.

You need acutally to raise more than 25%, because if i fold in the sb i lost 0.5bb. You would need to raise almost 40% if your raise all hands you play.
Even then im making a breakeven raise with 72o, but gaining a lot of value for my stronger hands.

Im not defending that much, nobodys opening 72o [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
But i think opening very wide from the sb is good vs most opponents as long as they keep folding alot.

[creedofhubris]

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I think creed is also saying a smart player raising ATC against that raising range.

A defense of a question is not "well he'll suck at another part of the game so it doesn't matter."

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I hadn't done the math; it's interesting.

Most opponents in cash games defend 50%+, so it's not a factor. My "default defense mode" in the 30s, however, so it's rather disturbing to me that I might be giving up autoprofit to smart opponents. Have to think about that.