16: JJ on the bubble - Page 3

TwistedEcho · #21 08-03-2007, 03:05 PM

Ok, so we assume that he is calling us with TT+ AQ+ since i don't expect him to 4x that and fold with that big a stack. He possibly calls wider, but whatever.

If he calls with 99+ AQ+ he needs to be opening 25.8% or more before its a push. (this is with the BB calling 10% when we fold)

If he calls with TT+ AQ+ he needs to be opening with
26.7%

TwistedEcho · #22 08-03-2007, 03:07 PM

Also when people raise 4x instead of 3x they usually have a stronger hand range AND you have less FE, this is the main reason why im folding, especially if he has been 3x it normally and now makes it 4x. If his standard raise is 4x then i'd probably shove, but its close.

TruFloridaGator · #23 08-03-2007, 03:35 PM

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Oh, I'm autopushing this. I think you people wanting to fold are underestimating our FE here.

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Auto? Apparently it looks like it's a fold but we need someone to run some real numbers.

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Auto.

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Looks at the numbers, looks pretty close. This is precisely why you have to have a read here. He could be opening wider or not even close to 26%.

Also, thanks TE.

StregaChess · #24 08-03-2007, 03:35 PM

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Also when people raise 4x instead of 3x they usually have a stronger hand range

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How do you know this is true, with a large stack like this he might just be a bully. Our personal experience is not always the best indicator of truth, if you pull this conclusion from a database that's another matter.

Pudge714 · #25 08-03-2007, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also when people raise 4x instead of 3x they usually have a stronger hand range AND you have less FE, this is the main reason why im folding, especially if he has been 3x it normally and now makes it 4x. If his standard raise is 4x then i'd probably shove, but its close.

[/ QUOTE ]
The stronger hand range is weird. If he 4xes the bottom of his range is much better than if he 3xes, but the top of his range is worse.

kyro · #26 08-03-2007, 03:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I'm autopushing this. I think you people wanting to fold are underestimating our FE here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Auto? Apparently it looks like it's a fold but we need someone to run some real numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Auto.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks at the numbers, looks pretty close. This is precisely why you have to have a read here. He could be opening wider or not even close to 26%.

Also, thanks TE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I already said earlier that you probably SHOULD have an idea if he's raising wide or small here, but it's usually independent on how he got his chips in the first place.

TruFloridaGator · #27 08-03-2007, 04:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I'm autopushing this. I think you people wanting to fold are underestimating our FE here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Auto? Apparently it looks like it's a fold but we need someone to run some real numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Auto.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks at the numbers, looks pretty close. This is precisely why you have to have a read here. He could be opening wider or not even close to 26%.

Also, thanks TE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I already said earlier that you probably SHOULD have an idea if he's raising wide or small here, but it's usually independent on how he got his chips in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Independent is a strong word, it could easily matter. When he has that many chips he probably has some showdowns where he raised that can give us a good indication of his range here.

kyro · #28 08-03-2007, 04:12 PM

Come on. You are not raising the same range on the bubble as a big stack as you are 10-handed Level 1.

kyro · #29 08-03-2007, 04:14 PM

Meaning, I, myself, am pretty much raising a very wide range here as big stack. But you're telling me you'll notice from the tourney that I have been very tight, so I should have a narrow range.

TruFloridaGator · #30 08-03-2007, 04:16 PM

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Come on. You are not raising the same range on the bubble as a big stack as you are 10-handed Level 1.

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I'm not saying that, but if you have seen him get in to a pot raising j6s earlier then we can get his range wide enough to make this a shove. I don't care how many handed or what the blinds were, it makes a difference. Obviously if we have a more recent hand near the bubble it helps even more. WITHOUT A READ THIS IS A FOLD.