Quasi-Awesome Preflop Question

[private joker]

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i don't see the value in randomizing.

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There are several good reasons to randomize here, Pete. First of all, I think we know the EV difference is very small [I'd say a) it's clear limping is +EV and b) it's clear that the + is not by much at all], and in cases where the difference isn't very large, you want opportunities to consider things like your image, your opponents, the table texture, metagame, etc.

Sometimes you want to be seen showing down 76s after raising. Sometimes you want a more passive/straightforward image so you decline to raise this and other marginal hands. Sometimes you want to build a big pot because the table is tightening up. Sometimes you've been card dead for an hour and the limpers think you have to have AA/KK to be raising here.

Having hard and fast preflop rules, especially for very marginal on-the-border situations/hands where the EV either way isn't too big, is not a recipe for creativity. It'll just make you more predictable in the eyes of your opponents.

[HOWMANY]

Honestly I haven't read most the replies but with regard to the "randomizing" thing I don't really see the purpose because I am guessing most of us would autoraise T9s here and to a lot of people 76s=T9s in this spot in their eyes so if they see us raise one then they assume we raise the other.

[stinkypete]

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Sometimes you want to be seen showing down 76s after raising. Sometimes you want a more passive/straightforward image so you decline to raise this and other marginal hands. Sometimes you want to build a big pot because the table is tightening up. Sometimes you've been card dead for an hour and the limpers think you have to have AA/KK to be raising here.

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so you're not randomizing at all. that's all i was asking.

[Justin A]

I think I'd raise here because I have the button and raising seems like an extremely easy way to get to the river rather cheaply with a weak draw, or to find good spots to win unimproved, or to win a decent sized pot if I hit something.

Basically I'm on the button and I want to have the initiative for this hand. Make the limpers a little looser postflop than described in the OP and I change my answer to a limp.

[Joe Tall]

In this situation, as I interpret the description, I probably raise. There are times I call. There are very rare times I fold (usually a look-left tell).

[ILOVEPOKER929]

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In this situation, as I interpret the description, I probably raise. There are times I call. There are very rare times I fold (usually a look-left tell).

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I still think raising here is terrible no matter how many respectable posters disagree with me. BTW Joe, I recently saw your videos. Keep up the good work. Very nice site.

[BryanC]

I would almost never raise ! suited connectors play best in multiway pots against loose passive opponents right ? so isnt this the perfect oppertunity to do just that ? we wanna see a flop cheaply, hit big and get paid well simple as that realy.

Even if we have a very small edge preflop (which is very questionable) we're gonna have a much bigger one if we hit the flop, the more opponents we have the better our implied odds so wanting to knock players out seems absurd to me.

[private joker]

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wanting to knock players out seems absurd to me.

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We only want to knock out the blinds who play well. We're not expecting the limpers to fold -- instead, we want to play a pot against them, in position, that has a lot of their chips in it for us to win. And if the blinds do call, fine -- we're still in position in a large multiway pot with a well-disguised hand.

[BryanC]

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wanting to knock players out seems absurd to me.


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We only want to knock out the blinds who play well. We're not expecting the limpers to fold -- instead, we want to play a pot against them, in position, that has a lot of their chips in it for us to win. And if the blinds do call, fine -- we're still in position in a large multiway pot with a well-disguised hand.

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Yeah I can see your point but IMO I think a preflop raise is gonna hurt our implied odds because we have less opponents and we're tagged as the preflop raiser its likley to dampen the action post-flop, if we just call i think we will find it alot easier to build a large pot on the flop with multiple opponents when he hit a big hand/draw. the fact that the 2 blinds are decent players doesnt bother me much because my hand is gonna be pretty well defined after the flop im likely to either wanna play it hard or not atall fair enough if we eliminate the blinds we win more pots when we hit a scabby pair etc but i dont think that compensates enough for the loss of multiway action.

[Clarkmeister]

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In this situation, as I interpret the description, I probably raise. There are times I call. There are very rare times I fold (usually a look-left tell).

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I still think raising here is terrible no matter how many respectable posters disagree with me. BTW Joe, I recently saw your videos. Keep up the good work. Very nice site.

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You are wrong. If Joe advocates raising, even if only slightly, it's a pretty easy raise.

Position with dead money and initiative against retards is a pretty sweet spot to be.

Certainly better than position against lots of players, including two good ones with no dead money and no initiative with a hand that easy for them to read because it's exactly what we are "supposed to" have.

I really don't know that one needs to go any further than that in order to know what the right play is.