We don't really beat much, do we?

[corsakh]

I wanna know myself.. The only point for calling I can think of is that the flush is backdoor and villain may not give credit for it with a slowplayed straight. The Ah is on the board, so a flush is less likely. And two pairs are also possible. I probly call. Its just sick to fold a flush for this much in a strange situation like this.

[hunt1897]

You beat any straight,set,2 pair,Ax.
With those stats, Villian could have higher suited connectors.
Easy Call, but you might be beat here.

To me it looks like villain is not giving us credit for a big hand and raises to get more value out of a st8. That`s why I suggest min reraise. With a st8 villain will probably make a crying call, I don`t give him to much credit for a bigger flush. I think most villains would just shove a big flush in this spot.

[wslee00]

seriously - the more i think about it, the question should be "how much should i raise". Not raising here is criminal. I mean - you have to specifically put him on a higher flush to think about laying this down.

[jiacstrap]

[ QUOTE ]
To me it looks like villain is not giving us credit for a big hand and raises to get more value out of a st8. That`s why I suggest min reraise. With a st8 villain will probably make a crying call, I don`t give him to much credit for a bigger flush. I think most villains would just shove a big flush in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

But then what happens when he shoves after your value re-raise?

[BackdoorQuads]

I think we should look at the turn action. Hero bet into a board of 8753 with a couple hearts, so what does villain think Hero has? Villain will probably assume that Hero will bet the river. Let's say villain thinks Hero pairing his 8 is most likely (not unreasonable, since Hero checked the flop and was in the SB), so what will villain call with? Probably any pair, any two hearts, a 6, or a 9. What is villain going to raising with on the river? I'd guess two pair (suppose like, A5s or A3s), two hearts, and possibly air sometimes, because Villain might assume Hero is scared of the ace. I think the river is at least a call. I'm not sure about a raise, because villain doesn't pay off with air, he calls with a better flush, and might be able to get away with 2-pair hands (by convincing himself that Hero turned a straight or actually rivered the flush). I vote call.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To me it looks like villain is not giving us credit for a big hand and raises to get more value out of a st8. That`s why I suggest min reraise. With a st8 villain will probably make a crying call, I don`t give him to much credit for a bigger flush. I think most villains would just shove a big flush in this spot.

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But then what happens when he shoves after your value re-raise?

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fold. But you should not stop value betting, out of fear that they will shove your raises IMO.