live 67s Button

[Mook]

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eight limpers to me, i'm on the button, i raise any two cards for value because i have position right? ugh cmon with this again guys

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Raising with 76s here is for value, I swear it! I humbly plead for leniency before the Archbishop. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Apropos of nothing, the last live 4/8 game I played I was on the button about an hour in, everyone limps to me and I popped it with 93s. Flop came 7-6-3, turn 8, river 5. That 93s won me about $100 that hand and about $250 more over the course of that night - it was the first and last time I got out of line the whole session but it seemed like every time I made the nuts, I could lead out and someone would raise "Mr. Nine-Three" just on principle.

Raise 76s for value, but also 'cause image is fun. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Mook

[Aces McGee]

Mook, the problem with stuff like this is that most of the time, you are going to have to throw away your 93s before showdown, and it's not gonna do a damn thing for your image. Heck, even if you show down the hand but don't win the pot, it won't do much. Live 4/8 players aren't going to remember other players' losing hands. They called you "Mr. Nine Three" because you raised with it and won, not because you raised with it.

-McGee

[KitCloudkicker]

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first with all these limpers on the button i think you have an easy pf raise, both for value and based on your position.


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No high card value makes this an easy limp. What hands wouldn't you raise here? Unless you really think a pair of 7s or 6s, with a crap kick at that, might hold up. This hand is good to see the flop cheaply.

b

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any hand where you have an equity edge and position on a passive table should be raised preflop.

i dont raise K2s b/c it lacks that edge. 23s and 34s lack that edge b/c they make fewer straights than 76s and more 2nd best straights.

the other advantage with raising this hand preflop is that it ties other people into the pot. you dont want people folding when you hit the nuts on the turn or flop a big draw.

finally by raising preflop in position in a passive game, everyone almost religiously checks to the raiser. if you flop something lame (like a backdraw draw) you can check the flop, and the resulting free turn card can give you a very nice draw.

i would not advocate this PF raise, fwiw, w/o several limpers in, or in a very tough aggressive game.

[KitCloudkicker]

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Raising with 76s here is for value, I swear it! I humbly plead for leniency before the Archbishop. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Apropos of nothing, the last live 4/8 game I played I was on the button about an hour in, everyone limps to me and I popped it with 93s. Flop came 7-6-3, turn 8, river 5. That 93s won me about $100 that hand and about $250 more over the course of that night - it was the first and last time I got out of line the whole session but it seemed like every time I made the nuts, I could lead out and someone would raise "Mr. Nine-Three" just on principle.

Raise 76s for value, but also 'cause image is fun. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Mook

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no offense but this is pretty results-oriented.

76s is a value raise that doubles as a image-enhancer. 93s is a spew.

[KitCloudkicker]

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first with all these limpers on the button i think you have an easy pf raise, both for value and based on your position.


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What hands wouldn't you raise here?

b

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AJo, ATo, KJo - mediocre hands with only high card value.

suited king-rag.

other than that, i'm raising. the button is the best position in poker and you should be putting money in when you have it.

[PokerJans]

I would almost never raise this hand preflop even after everyone limped. Maybe someone can explain this?

I thought you played this hand really well though. I believe calling the flop is definitely correct and just calling the turn after we get there would be a mistake. We definitely need to raise to protect our hand against flushes and extract value from other hands.

BTW I have no idea what the guy on your right had. I think that is also interesting.

[OregonRogue]

Because if you make a hand with 67s its going to be one that is going to be big enough to take down a multiplayer pot and you have the button. If you pop it and wiff on the flop, oh well, all you've lost is one BB. But if you catch the flop you now have something to chase after. So do other players, so when you catch your nut straight on the turn they're less likely to just forfet the pot as quickly. Because you're the button, and most players dont donk into a preflop raise you may even be able to get a free card too, and your hand will be well disguised when you catch something. The key is dont do anything stupid like think you pair of 7's is going to be good. When you wiff you've lost 1 SB, when you hit you may need a few hands to stack the chips.

"BTW I have no idea what the guy on your right had. I think that is also interesting. "

I was confused by this too. My guess is a 5 and he was praying no one had the J, or a bad J.

[Ricks]

This hand has no equity advantage unless they are all playing random hands and even then it would be minuscule.

Small suited connectors are implied odds hands and need all the implied odds they can get. If you are doubling the bet pf you have just doubled the implied odds that you need for the hand to be profitable.

You have to realize that when you do hit you will make a lot of second best hands. A hand like JTs is a raise in a game like this, not 76s.

[Mook]

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no offense but this is pretty results-oriented.

76s is a value raise that doubles as a image-enhancer. 93s is a spew.

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Of course it is. That's why I prefaced it "apropos of nothing". [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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This hand has no equity advantage unless they are all playing random hands and even then it would be minuscule.

Small suited connectors are implied odds hands and need all the implied odds they can get. If you are doubling the bet pf you have just doubled the implied odds that you need for the hand to be profitable.

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Let's say, for the sake of argument, it has no equity edge at all in this spot.

Even so, most 2+2'ers are 25/15-type players in 50/5-type games. Believe it or not, at live games in the 6/12 - 10/20 ranges, some of your opponents will actually notice this. If all you raise on a regular basis are big pairs and blackjack hands, sure, you'll get called down by idiots, but you won't ever get extra action on big bet streets like the person who showed down 7-high the last two times he raised will.

My point is, if you want to get action on your big hands, why not do it with a hand where raising is +EV to begin with? You're literally getting paid to enhance a loose, wild image. I call that a pretty good deal.

Mook

[Joe Tall]

Consider raising preflop.