50 Questions for Mormons

[luckyme]

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Nah, we just went to different schools. I was taught that the questioners motives don't affect the question, and to merely attack their motive was a form of ad hominem.


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Sounds like you were taught to be "suckered in". You may want to re-think your education in this matter.

Stu

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Suckered in by reading a question and thinking about the answer? rather than wondering, "does the questioner hate girls?, or is he trying to bug hortense, or some other xyz?"

I agree those may be interesting questions on their own at times, but irrelevant if the original question is a good probe. Questions "are Swedes taller than the Welsh" may be motivated by fear or love of Swedes or the Welsh, but if it raises my interest why should I care what his motive is... hmmmm, which are taller?

It's a more valuable skill to weigh the argument as presented rather than trying to blame my lack of agreement or inability to form a decent challenge on "oh, he's just trying to pisss me off". That seems a way to sucker yourself in by dismissing tough questions because of concerns over the questioners motive rather than the issue raised by the question itself.

luckyme

[Matt R.]

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And the most important question of all:

Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

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Why would God heal amputees? Because Sam Harris says he should, or is there a deeper reason?

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"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." (Matthew 7:7)

"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:19)

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." (John 14:13-14)

"And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you." (John 16:23)

"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him." (1 John 5:14-15)

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OK, so you're a fundamentalist and read the Bible literally. In particular, if the Bible says, roughly, "your faith can get you anything" it really means anything .

Unfortunately I'm not a fundamentalist so I don't quite take your view of the Bible. Just a few questions for you since you interpret the Bible so vastly differently than I do: Do you think the original author's intent was that God would give you anything if you asked for it (from the texts you quoted it appears you think this way)? For example, if I asked God in pure faith to murder someone who I didnt like, do you think the author really thought God would murder at my every whim? Do you think if I asked God for a hooker that looked like a supermodel, would the original Biblical author say that God will teleport her into my room? If you asked God, in good faith, to heal every disease and every amputee victim in the world, he should do it right?

Also, the site about amputees appears to be atheistic. Do you think that if an individual who doesn't believe in God asks God to do something that God will do it? That he SHOULD do it? Or you will make fun of them with a fancy interwebz site? You really think this? Have you considered the possibility that the Bible is talking about spiritual matters and having faith in yourself?

So, I guess the argument boils down to "hey, I'm an atheist and God doesn't grow arms and legs when I ask him to even though I don't even think he exists therefore Christianity shall perish at the hands of Pope Dawkins and Archbishop Harris."

I'm glad this argument is convincing to somebody.

[Matt R.]

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Because:
1) Mormons are Christians


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Nope. At least they are not typically considered Christians. They have vastly different beliefs than mainstream Christianity, and sociologists who study religion almost always classify Mormonism and Christianity as separate religions. If you want to classify them under the same heading, that's cool I guess. Just realize that most people who study religion disagree with this classification because it's not very useful.

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2) People asked for a similar list of questions posed to Christians & Catholics

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OK, but what I meant by my question was why would this be asked in a thread clearly asking about Mormonism. No one has even answered the OP's question yet. What could the motivation possibly be?

[JayTee]

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And the most important question of all:

Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would God heal amputees? Because Sam Harris says he should, or is there a deeper reason?

[/ QUOTE ]

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." (Matthew 7:7)

"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:19)

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)

"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." (John 14:13-14)

"And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you." (John 16:23)

"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him." (1 John 5:14-15)

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OK, so you're a fundamentalist and read the Bible literally. In particular, if the Bible says, roughly, "your faith can get you anything" it really means anything .

Unfortunately I'm not a fundamentalist so I don't quite take your view of the Bible. Just a few questions for you since you interpret the Bible so vastly differently than I do: Do you think the original author's intent was that God would give you anything if you asked for it (from the texts you quoted it appears you think this way)? For example, if I asked God in pure faith to murder someone who I didnt like, do you think the author really thought God would murder at my every whim? Do you think if I asked God for a hooker that looked like a supermodel, would the original Biblical author say that God will teleport her into my room? If you asked God, in good faith, to heal every disease and every amputee victim in the world, he should do it right?

Also, the site about amputees appears to be atheistic. Do you think that if an individual who doesn't believe in God asks God to do something that God will do it? That he SHOULD do it? Or you will make fun of them with a fancy interwebz site? You really think this? Have you considered the possibility that the Bible is talking about spiritual matters and having faith in yourself?

So, I guess the argument boils down to "hey, I'm an atheist and God doesn't grow arms and legs when I ask him to even though I don't even think he exists therefore Christianity shall perish at the hands of Pope Dawkins and Archbishop Harris."

I'm glad this argument is convincing to somebody.

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If not literally, how should one interpret the bible? Perhaps whichever makes it easier to believe?

Do you believe in the power of prayer? If a loved one received a serious head injury in a car accident, would you pray for God to help heal that person? What if they lost a limb? Would you pray to God to replace the limb? Is it not within God's power to replace a limb?

[KipBond]

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Unfortunately I'm not a fundamentalist so I don't quite take your view of the Bible. Just a few questions for you since you interpret the Bible so vastly differently than I do

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Just to stop you here -- I'm (obviously) not a Fundamentalist. However, those questions are targeted toward Christian Fundamentalists. If you allow for a liberal interpretation of the Bible, or even allow for mistakes to be in it, then you can believe pretty much whatever you want to believe (so to speak), and these questions won't phase you one bit.

The "amputee question" is targeted toward those Christians that believe that God heals people when they pray. LOTS of people (Catholics & Protestants alike) believe this. If God heals people with cancer, and heart problems, and any other # of major illnesses & diseases -- then why not amputees?

[KipBond]

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Because:
1) Mormons are Christians


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Nope. At least they are not typically considered Christians.

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Well, they follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, have similar "salvation beliefs", and consider themselves to be Christians. I'd say that qualifies them. Lots of people that I'd consider "Christian" wouldn't consider other people in that same grouping to be "Christian". I know Protestants who don't believe that Catholics are "Christian". And as we saw in other threads, the Pope doesn't consider Protestants to be part of the Christian "Church". Meh. I don't really care about all that anymore. They use the Bible. They believe Jesus was the Son of God. They call themselves "Christians". They're Christians to me.

Are Mormons Christians?
Jesus Christ: Our Savior

[KipBond]

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And the most important question of all:

Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

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Here's a video put out by the the same guy/group:

How do we know that Christians are delusional?

He first talks about Mormons & Muslims -- so it's also relevant to why they are delusional. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[LeadbellyDan]

51. So you really are an actual mormon? I mean you actually truly believe that stuff....? Seriously?

[Matt R.]

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Unfortunately I'm not a fundamentalist so I don't quite take your view of the Bible. Just a few questions for you since you interpret the Bible so vastly differently than I do

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Just to stop you here -- I'm (obviously) not a Fundamentalist. However, those questions are targeted toward Christian Fundamentalists. If you allow for a liberal interpretation of the Bible, or even allow for mistakes to be in it, then you can believe pretty much whatever you want to believe (so to speak), and these questions won't phase you one bit.

The "amputee question" is targeted toward those Christians that believe that God heals people when they pray. LOTS of people (Catholics & Protestants alike) believe this. If God heals people with cancer, and heart problems, and any other # of major illnesses & diseases -- then why not amputees?

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Well, ok then. I personally think an absolute literal reading of the Bible is silly as well. This does not mean it is useless or a worthless piece of work. I think an absolute literal reading of anything is generally worthless, except for maybe works on mathematics or pure logic. Think about how much interpretational leeway you generally give writings when you are looking for the original author's intent? You don't treat every sentence like a syllogism.

I guess my point is, to come to the conclusion that the Bible is saying faith can/will heal amputees for example, you *must* take an absolute literal interpretation of Biblical passages. So much that you think every single statement in the Bible is meant to be that of pure logic: e.g. 1) The Bible says you can move mountains with faith. 2) The Bible is the word of God. 3) Therefore I can move Mount Kilimanjaro by asking God really nicely.

I don't think anyone on these boards reads the Bible so literally, so I don't understand the desire to make fun of people with these beliefs in a thread on Mormonism. Even the Mormon guy popped in on another thread and said that 90% of the "facts" listed were hilarious. I think it is possible that no one in the history of humankind gives an absolute 100% literal reading of the Bible (I doubt anyone has thought Jesus' apostles were literally sheep when the Bible says Jesus is the shepherd and we are his flock, for example), and I doubt any Christian REALLY believes God will heal amputees 100% of the time when you ask him nicely. So, in summary, I think that website is extremely pointless because it is attacking a belief virtually (possibly absolutely) no one believes in.

[KipBond]

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I doubt any Christian REALLY believes God will heal amputees 100% of the time when you ask him nicely.

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The point of that question is that people believe God heals sickness & disease, sometimes, perhaps often, when asked. But he never heals amputees when asked. Do you believe God has healed people with cancer? Do you believe God has healed people with missing limbs?