Do you like this push? Nearly 550bb pot

[corsakh]

1) Ac8c, AcKc
2) I really dont want to get deep into this argument, but generally if you bet on villains ability to lay down a good hand, you loose. A nut flush draw with so much money in the pot qualifies as a very good hand by most villains.

[stunna954]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Ac8c, AcKc
2) I really dont want to get deep into this argument, but generally if you bet on villains ability to lay down a good hand, you loose. A nut flush draw with so much money in the pot qualifies as a very good hand by most villains.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree I don't want to continually go back and forth here so I'll let this be my last remark.

Your ability to say AKs and A8s have supporting outs is based on the assumption that BB still has AQ and button now has a flush draw instead of a set, unless you're saying runner runner our supporting outs. Had I not posted results would you honestly think either of those hands had any supporting outs? 99% of the time some one in this hand has a set so I don't really follow the supporting outs logic unless you're taking about runner runner.

In regards to question 2 isn't that exactly what fold equity is and why we run equity calculations? We're betting that villain is going to lay down his hand a certain amount of times for us to make a particular play profitable. He may only lay it down a low percentage of the time but that doesn't make it like you said a loosing play, it could still very well be +EV.

standart, nh

[corsakh]

Mm.. I dont understand your statement about supporting outs, but the fact that you propose me being result is very promising [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway... When I see this sort of action on this sort of board, my immediate reaction is put one of the villains on a set/two pair and another one on a high flush draw, at very least K high.

The only hands that generate action on this board are sets, two pairs, flush draws, TPTK and overs. Overs and TPTK are the only hands you are ahead of, they are also least likely to call a push. However I hardly see a hand that is ahead of you that folds to your push. So you FE is effectively zero, and hands that you may fold, you dont really want to be folding.

Now, against two other players with a flush draw + a set your drawing effectively dead, and this will be a huge amount of time. With $6 invested, I dont see a reason to get involved and get out of this as quick as I can. Not like someone who raised a preflop raisor into another player is going to fold to a two way push, not in 50NL.

And at last, just a simple situation from one of my sessions.

Hero raises UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Villain with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] calls OTB. Blinds fold.

Flop comes K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Whats your immediate judgment who is ahead on this flop and by how much.

[monkover]

i agree with corsakh here. I don´t think we have a lot of equity and when i read the first couple of posts i thought i was in the [censored] twilight zone... everbody thinking we have 19 outs is just insane!
btw corsakh are you stoned or why is there is smiley in like every second sentece [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]