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#21
06-28-2007, 11:28 AM
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Re: AKs + position + board pair queens = value bet river?
*grunch*
Why in your right mind would you not raise AK here, you now have a 4 way pot when we clearly want a HU pot or at least forcing the guys in back to call 2 cold with their T9s. Bad Bad mistake there. Flop standard, turn standard. River is close for me, if we feel there is alot of C/Ring on (which i might point out is prolly a bad play here by villians) then I might go into check mode and call a single bet. If its lead by CO and then C/R by one of the other two guys this is an easy fold for me. 
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#22
06-28-2007, 12:02 PM
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Re: AKs + position + board pair queens = value bet river?
lol [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] i met AKo raise always..
 sorryi just dunno why is said limp ,guess i was still thinking about AKS.what i am sayign is if u want to limp,its better do it with AKs but never with AKo.. but it either,i think we all know its pretty clear to raise with it is better.
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#24
06-28-2007, 04:50 PM
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Re: AKs + position + board pair queens = value bet river?
nix apparently the stars .25/.50 games aren't beatable anymore except without that sort of lrr trickery...what can you do?
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#25
06-30-2007, 08:28 AM
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Re: AKs + position + board pair queens = value bet river?
Look, I realize that you draw a lot of weight on this forum, and I don't draw dick. But my argument is still good. And I'd like it to be taken seriously.
Dude, listen to what your saying. [ QUOTE ] After all, AK is only ace-high before the flop (and it will only be ace-high after 2/3 of the flops). [/ QUOTE ] lol. AK is a drawing hand. You realize that all other non-pair hands are going to be high-card hands 2/3. [ QUOTE ] You also realize you decrease your chances of winning the pot UI and without showdown (did you know that AK is only A-high on 2/3 of the flops?). [/ QUOTE ] lol. AK = drawing hand. [ QUOTE ] You also discount the times that a hand like Q9s slips in cheaply and draws to a flush when he would have otherwise folded (see above). That same Q9s might even flop a pair of 9s to beat you. Simply put, your argument is an oversimplification that fails to prove anything at all. [/ QUOTE ] lol. AK = drawing hand. AKs has an edge over Q9s. I'd prefer Q9s to play. I don't think people will take the limp AKs argument seriously on this forum for awhile because it violates one of the commandments of small stakes limited hold'em. That's too bad because at these rock garden tables, I think it can often make more money than straight up raise.
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#26
06-30-2007, 08:39 AM
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Re: AKs + position + board pair queens = value bet river?
[ QUOTE ]
i'm starting to think it's someone's gimmick account or a deliberate troll at this point! [/ QUOTE ] I'm not trolling. I don't have a gimmick account. I'm not selling anything. I'm sorry if I did something wrong.
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#27
06-30-2007, 08:51 AM
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Re: AKs + position + board pair queens = value bet river?
[ QUOTE ]
That's too bad because at these rock garden tables, I think it can often make more money than straight up raise. [/ QUOTE ] Any statistics to back that up or is it just a hunch? Meanwhile, I would avoid those rock gardens seeing that there's plenty of lush green pastures all over Stars.
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#28
06-30-2007, 09:11 AM
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Re: AKs + position + board pair queens = value bet river?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] That's too bad because at these rock garden tables, I think it can often make more money than straight up raise. [/ QUOTE ] Any statistics to back that up or is it just a hunch? Meanwhile, I would avoid those rock gardens seeing that there's plenty of lush green pastures all over Stars. [/ QUOTE ] Sure. Raised PF: 1.98 - AA, N = 32 1.58 - AKs, N = 24 0.71 - AKo, N = 100 0.78 - KK, N = 60 Limp/RR 4.00 - AA, N = 3 4.40 - AKs, N = 1 (2.50) - AKo, N = 2 (1.53) - KK, N = 2 Sample is small because I haven't done it much. But it looks like I win more when my hand holds, and lose more when it doesn't - particularly with AKo and KK. Higher variance certainly.
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#29
06-30-2007, 09:12 AM
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Re: AKs + position + board pair queens = value bet river?
[ QUOTE ]
Look, I realize that you draw a lot of weight on this forum, and I don't draw dick. But my argument is still good. And I'd like it to be taken seriously. [/ QUOTE ] You are going to need to do a better job of splaining this theory if you want it taken seriously. Not taking this seriously has very little to do with post count and very much to do with it being wrong. Slow playing monsters loses value.
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#30
06-30-2007, 09:25 AM
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Re: AKs + position + board pair queens = value bet river?
[ QUOTE ]
lol. AK is a drawing hand. You realize that all other non-pair hands are going to be high-card hands 2/3. [/ QUOTE ] AK is a drawing hand, AK isn't a drawing hand, whatever, it's a dumb argument. What's more important is that AK has showdown value. If you play AK HU and 3 handed, you can showdown AK often and win because of all the times those other high card hands miss the flop. This isn't really possible in multiway pots. [ QUOTE ] Limp/RR 4.00 - AA, N = 3 4.40 - AKs, N = 1 (2.50) - AKo, N = 2 (1.53) - KK, N = 2 Sample is small because I haven't done it much. But it looks like I win more when my hand holds, and lose more when it doesn't - particularly with AKo and KK. Higher variance certainly. [/ QUOTE ] I don't see how you can draw any conclusions for any of those LRRs when your deepest sample has 3 trials.
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