Live 10/25 @ the WSOP... I hate folding...

[RiverHebrew2]

i'd say he has a set, but I still shove and gamboool with 11 outs twice and the $ in the pot, but live players do play rele bad and u have no reads to go on that he is a nit, u just assumed

[Lefort]

I'm pretty certain that pushing this flop against a nit is -EV.

I opted to call, and c/f a 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn. My logic was that there may be some hands that he raises the flop with that I beat, but I think most of them slow down on the turn when I call the flop.

I think villain has QQ+ <1% of the time. So like the only hands I'm really ahead of here are like JxK[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or JxQ[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]... and I just feel like he probably doesn't push the turn with these...

Like in the regular online games this is obv a no-brainer "get it in somewhere" hand but I really feel like most of the time this nit raises the flop I'm drawing to 7 outs or 11 outs vs. a big redraw. Then when he bets the turn I'm almost certainly way behind, and "save" myself $1600 while not really losing much of the equity of my hand because his turn bet tells me I didn't have a whole lot to begin with. I folded face-up, and most people at the table were like "wow" while the kid was visibly upset that he didn't get paid off as he raked in the pot.

[Kevin Browne]

hmmmm...if you it in your head that hes a huge nit then how is calling better than folding?? if spade hits you get no more money from him, and if it doesnt hit you fold. Huge nits don't raise to 700 with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J in this spot.

[cts]

most live players are really bad dude gotta get it in, you don't think he'll push the turn with KsJ? lol they push the turn with KdJd trying to protect their hand

[Stinger88]

I really think this is push or fold, and lean toward fold vs player described

[spino1i]

Its either push or flat call. If I flat call its obviously with intent to felt this no matter what happens in the end. Theres no way I fold here for 100 BB.

Pushing is a more basic standard play and I dont think its a bad one. Flat calling is obviously trying to take advantage of the fact that turn and river cards are going to make your life easier and your opp's life harder (there are really no bad turn or river cards for you hand, whereas there are many other hands that do have bad turn and river cards). Unfortunately, to counterbalance this, the opp does have position on you.

A flat call with the idea of -

a) pushing into him on any turn that is a 4th spade

b) Otherwise, c/r all-in on any other turn. If the villain checks behind, I think a c/r all-in on any river is best.

- might be better than just the standard flop all-in. Its a more sophisticated play, though im not sure if its a better one.

[KRANTZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Its either push or flat call. If I flat call its obviously with intent to felt this no matter what happens in the end. Theres no way I fold here for 100 BB.

Pushing is a more basic standard play and I dont think its a bad one. Flat calling is obviously trying to take advantage of the fact that turn and river cards are going to make your life easier and your opp's life harder (there are really no bad turn or river cards for you hand, whereas there are many other hands that do have bad turn and river cards). Unfortunately, to counterbalance this, the opp does have position on you.

A flat call with the idea of -

a) pushing into him on any turn that is a 4th spade

b) Otherwise, c/r all-in on any other turn. If the villain checks behind, I think a c/r all-in on any river is best.

- might be better than just the standard flop all-in. Its a more sophisticated play, though im not sure if its a better one.

[/ QUOTE ]

what are you even talking about

[TheFuGu]

if you dont shove this flop you are also a nit.

[wdead]

[ QUOTE ]
if you dont shove this flop you are also a nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lefort is not a nit. Blanket statements like this one just betray your ignorance.

Lefort, Jfish, why is this not a push or fold situation?

[ImJustAFish]

Just because if he s a nit and you push flop he will find a surnatural fold with the few hands you beat and want to put the money in with.However when you do call flop he will push turn with all his range:some of them beat you but you have outs,and you already ahead sometimes too...Right?