200PS: 99 in blind battle

[wrkingtobegreat]

wait

[wrkingtobegreat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yikes wtf is everyone talking about

call flop, always check turn

[/ QUOTE ]

This advice sucks. The only value this has is in extracting bluffs from AK/AQ/other high cards. The problem is is our passive line will make it extremely difficult to read whether villain is valuebetting or 2nd/3rd barrelling. Even in our best case scenario against these high cards, one of them will fall by the river like 70% of the time, making our decision even harder. The best thing to do is repop/fold flop. It will get high cards to fold and might make something better like 1010/JJ fold as well. It will make it crystal clear where we are at.

[/ QUOTE ]

raising purely for info is almost always bad

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not purely for info...villain folds alot of hands here. The info we gain will save us bets in the future (when we get called/shoved on)

[wrkingtobegreat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What makes the most sense is to raise the flop to around 100-105. Villain will probably push or fold. If he pushes, we know we are beat and have an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

By raise/folding this flop, we turn 99 into complete air. DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

In this hand, 99 is complete air. We dont beat any made hand.

[wrkingtobegreat]

OK we beat 88

[pnoles]

This is, without a doubt, one of the toughest spots in SSNL. The 3-bet range of the BB is probably on the looser side, but I still don't like the flat call, because if he backs into a pair of kings or something on the turn or river and checks behind us on the turn, what do we do when he value bets the river?

A turn bet by villain seems pretty unlikely when we're ahead, but if we take the c/c line on the flop, we're at the mercy of his bets on both later streets.

I agree the argument against raising the flop as well. If we're doing it with 99 here, we might as well be doing it with any hand if we're just going to fold to a push (which we almost def should if villain pushes).

I don't think this idea has been posed yet, but is anyone opposed to 4-betting preflop to avoid this situation (given his likely loose range because of prior SB aggression)? I'd like to hear some arguments against it.

[Lemayr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What makes the most sense is to raise the flop to around 100-105. Villain will probably push or fold. If he pushes, we know we are beat and have an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

By raise/folding this flop, we turn 99 into complete air. DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

In this hand, 99 is complete air. We dont beat any made hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do u mean by "we dont beat any hand here"? We beat a lot of hands, it's a blinds battle, u have a maniac image when in SB and u have an overpair on safe board against someone who is tired of being pushed around, he may be doing this with smaller PP, TP(maybe even mid pair) and for sure with two overcards or even air. For me this is a great situation, I'm raising his c-bet most of the time and ready to call a shove, and if u r scared he really has a big PP it's a bet pot on flop and then maybe fold, MAYBE. C/c and reevaluate turn is begging to be outplayed or outturned, raise flop and fold is insane, waste of money...

[Lemayr]

[ QUOTE ]
This is, without a doubt, one of the toughest spots in SSNL. The 3-bet range of the BB is probably on the looser side, but I still don't like the flat call, because if he backs into a pair of kings or something on the turn or river and checks behind us on the turn, what do we do when he value bets the river?

A turn bet by villain seems pretty unlikely when we're ahead, but if we take the c/c line on the flop, we're at the mercy of his bets on both later streets.

I agree the argument against raising the flop as well. If we're doing it with 99 here, we might as well be doing it with any hand if we're just going to fold to a push (which we almost def should if villain pushes).

I don't think this idea has been posed yet, but is anyone opposed to 4-betting preflop to avoid this situation (given his likely loose range because of prior SB aggression)? I'd like to hear some arguments against it.

[/ QUOTE ]

U mean raise his raise? isnt this a 3bet? lol im confused now...anyway, I dont like it, I think its building a too big pot with a very vunerable hand, specially oop. If he calls, what do u do on this flop? Any bet will be a big percentage of ur stack now...

[TimberBee]

[ QUOTE ]
This is, without a doubt, one of the toughest spots in SSNL. The 3-bet range of the BB is probably on the looser side, but I still don't like the flat call, because if he backs into a pair of kings or something on the turn or river and checks behind us on the turn, what do we do when he value bets the river?

A turn bet by villain seems pretty unlikely when we're ahead, but if we take the c/c line on the flop, we're at the mercy of his bets on both later streets.

I agree the argument against raising the flop as well. If we're doing it with 99 here, we might as well be doing it with any hand if we're just going to fold to a push (which we almost def should if villain pushes).

I don't think this idea has been posed yet, but is anyone opposed to 4-betting preflop to avoid this situation (given his likely loose range because of prior SB aggression)? I'd like to hear some arguments against it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe, this is getting ironic. Did I trap SSNL? Real hand

[wrkingtobegreat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What makes the most sense is to raise the flop to around 100-105. Villain will probably push or fold. If he pushes, we know we are beat and have an easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

By raise/folding this flop, we turn 99 into complete air. DUCY?

[/ QUOTE ]

In this hand, 99 is complete air. We dont beat any made hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do u mean by "we dont beat any hand here"? We beat a lot of hands, it's a blinds battle, u have a maniac image when in SB and u have an overpair on safe board against someone who is tired of being pushed around, he may be doing this with smaller PP, TP(maybe even mid pair) and for sure with two overcards or even air. For me this is a great situation, I'm raising his c-bet most of the time and ready to call a shove, and if u r scared he really has a big PP it's a bet pot on flop and then maybe fold, MAYBE. C/c and reevaluate turn is begging to be outplayed or outturned, raise flop and fold is insane, waste of money...

[/ QUOTE ]

So you advocate pushing? good. I'm in ur camp against everyone who thinks c/c is right it clearly isn't. What I'm saying is the overcards/smaller pp/tp are hardly ever calling our push, so when they do we are behind the huge majority of the time. We might has well reraie and fold to a push. Even though it seems like it sucks it will save us money over just pushing.

[ArgusSpets]

EY WTF.... WHAT MAKES C/C BETTER THAN B/F FLOP.... C/C GIVES NO INFORMATION ABOUT STRENGH OF OPPONENTS HAND. B/F MAKES US LOOSE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY WITH MORE INFORMATION.....?!?!?!?!? READ MY LAST POST IN THIS THREAD FOR MORE SPECIFIC EXPLANATION...