Low flopped flush, tonns of action

[ama0330]

i fold preflop and you have to go broke here, particularly with these odds.

[jmgambler]

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i cant fold here. also preflop is pretty insignificant here why are there like 5 posts about it?

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Well as one of the posters who commented on it, let me respond, without sounding trite, its the calling the raise PF that has got him in this mess, calling the flop and being in the hand is kinda pivotal, no? and it has to be a mess, no? He posted the HH? if he totally missed the flop he is not posting the HH is he?

Even if he wins the hand, what difference it make.... what now we all start calling two gappers to raises?

I dont see it as insignificant *shrugs*

[corsakh]

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if you are 200 bbs deep w/ a caller or two in between

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I will call with 43o in position and I bet its EV+.

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or your read is that UTG is likely to stack off w/ overpairs

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I rather need a read that a person is NOT going to stack off with an overpair at 20NL than that he is [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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but only 125 bbs deep and NO READS, you're just not deep enough to play 47s

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All right, lets see the math.

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you're gonna flop 2 pair 2%, trips 1.4%, boat/4 of a kind .1% you're gonna flop a flush .9% you're gonna flop a straight .65%

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Agreed. About 5% I flop a monster HU and go broke. Maybe. Chances I go broke with a monster in position are less than the average viallin going broke with his TP OOP. Thats 20 to 1.

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and a FD 11% and a SD 5.25%

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I win the hand at least 40% of the time because he did not hit. I win the hand another 10% percent because I suck out. And that is conservative. Roughly 8%. + 5% from the monsters. 13% in total. Sometimes he resucks. 10%. 1 to 9.

Yes, I do call off up to 10% of my stack with SC in position. Little less with gappers, about 8-7%. And I see no reason not to.

[corsakh]

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erm, no disrespect, but isn't this a little oxymoronish? You called a raise with a low suited 2 gapper (out of the blinds) by virtue of this how can you now say:

"As any other two cards its absolutely fine to play as long as you undrsetand what your are doing."

This statement can be used to qualify ANY 2 cards, out of ANY position, to ANY raise?........ sorry, I cannot agree with you here

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I didnt say "qualify" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I said "play". Play can be a call in one situation, a raise in another and a fold somewhere else, but I really only meant the first two in this case. And yes, the statement stands. As long as you understand what you are doing and why its totally fine. Just for a reference, PA defends 50% of his BB by smooth calling. I am not saying you should play like PA, I am saying its situational and the guy knows what he is doing.

[corsakh]

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wtf... this thread makes my head asplode.
Readless and a buyin deep I don't think you can get away from this on the flop.

Also at unl, there's really no point getting fancy. Not to mention if you're folding on a flop like that, you really shouldn't be playing that kind of hand in the first place. It's ultimately that pf choice that lands you into situations like this.

Also you're getting almost 3:1 This is Unl, don't overthink it and call.

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The reason I find this hand difficult is there are two people all in, one antogonizing fold and a ton of wiered action. It wouldnt be much differnt for me if I had a Q high flush here.

[corsakh]

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i cant fold here. also preflop is pretty insignificant here why are there like 5 posts about it?

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Well as one of the posters who commented on it, let me respond, without sounding trite, its the calling the raise PF that has got him in this mess, calling the flop and being in the hand is kinda pivotal, no? and it has to be a mess, no? He posted the HH? if he totally missed the flop he is not posting the HH is he?

Even if he wins the hand, what difference it make.... what now we all start calling two gappers to raises?

I dont see it as insignificant *shrugs*

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Dude, its not exactly a HU 3bet situation on a monotone board. I dont see how me having a SC here instead would help the case. And please stop picking on my two gappers, they are pretty. Until you have prove otherwise [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[futuredoc85]

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i cant fold here. also preflop is pretty insignificant here why are there like 5 posts about it?

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Well as one of the posters who commented on it, let me respond, without sounding trite, its the calling the raise PF that has got him in this mess, calling the flop and being in the hand is kinda pivotal, no? and it has to be a mess, no? He posted the HH? if he totally missed the flop he is not posting the HH is he?

Even if he wins the hand, what difference it make.... what now we all start calling two gappers to raises?

I dont see it as insignificant *shrugs*

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im not saying it should be a standard preflop call but you can trade small mistakes preflop for bigger mistakes from villains postflop. yes this one time OP got into a tough spot but lots of times he hits the flop and stacks an overpair, sometimes he misses and has an easy fold. He shouldnt really get into too many tough spots here and as long as he can outplay these people enough to make up for his tiny mistake preflop then its fine. I call w/ suited gappers in position every now and then and show a decent profit doing so. My point wasnt that pf was great its that the flop is much more interesting and telling him to fold pf isnt really going to give him the insight he was looking for on the hand.

[ama0330]

The reason I said to fold preflop is because you flopped your perfect hand and are now asking us all whether or not you should felt it.

[corsakh]

This is ridicoulous. Just because you flop T63r with pocket aces doesnt mean that you gonna have an easy time calling a mindonk, a mincall, an insta shove to a push, a call, and a 20 second long fold. Should I stop playing Aces from now on too?

[Archon_Wing]

That's not the best analogy. AA is good on a lot of flops where it misses while 47 isn't.

A better analogy is calling a raise with a small pocket pair and thinking about folding bottom set to a lot of action.