How my stance on panhandlers changed, if just for one day.

[Jauerback]

[ QUOTE ]
Hang on, since when can you just buy meat patties at Maccas?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhh... order a plain hamburger minus the buns?

[unbluffable]

a few weeks ago, when i stilll lived in Westwood (filled with bums) i was rolling a blunt right on the sidewalk. I told a bum that if he watches for cops, ill do something nice for him. He did, and I smoked a blunt with him (if you think its gross, i don't care about ur opinion, im not like that) and he was definitely the highest he's ever been, and probably as happy as he's been in years.

rkd

[IggyWH]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like an idiot for giving money that I worked hard for to people who could be out working, but aren't.

[/ QUOTE ]

They still make people like you?

I always wondered where this notion came from. Sink yourself into the reality of being homeless and tell me exactly how you are supposed to get a job?

You also realize that a lot of homeless people are ones that have medical conditions, right?

[mwalsh2020]

[ QUOTE ]
I give food and money to homeless people all the time. Some of you feel that giving them money will allow them to spend it on drugs and alcohol, well that's precisely why I give them money.I know that that's what they might buy. Whatever gets them through the day. I'm sure many of you have been in points in your life when all you need is a drink or to smoke a joint. Now imagine how much more so it is important to these people.

[/ QUOTE ]

while i respect your compassion, i think you are missing the obvious point that while drugs or alcohol will temporarily make their day better, it only makes it more difficult for them to get themselves back on their feet. When a homeless person uses the money for that it shows that their priorities have been warped by either drugs or a mental illness. In either case they need help, but at that point they don't need drugs.

[lippy]

rpr,

"I'm a hardcore libertarian and believe people should work for themselves"

Eh, a hardcore libertarian would think it the job of the private sector to take care of those less-fortunate as a means to stave off wealth redistribution.

But that's neither here nor there. Good thread kyleb.

[kyleb]

Like many in this thread, I am a libertarian and I also believe that people should work for themselves.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't care for them out of the kindness of our own hearts.

[Foucault]

I'm not calling out anyone in particular from this thread, but I hope I'm not the only one to pick up on the irony of professional poker players talking about how other people need to "get a job". It's cool that you've found a way to translate your time and intelligence into the means of providing for yourself, but you are not doing anything more productive than a panhandler. I honestly don't see how a professional poker player satisfies the "productive labor in exchange for the necessities of life" social contract that's assumed by the "get a job" mentality any more than a panhandler does.

[kyleb]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not calling out anyone in particular from this thread, but I hope I'm not the only one to pick up on the irony of professional poker players talking about how other people need to "get a job". It's cool that you've found a way to translate your time and intelligence into the means of providing for yourself, but you are not doing anything more productive than a panhandler. I honestly don't see how a professional poker player satisfies the "productive labor in exchange for the necessities of life" social contract that's assumed by the "get a job" mentality any more than a panhandler does.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for derailing this thread; you're absolutely wrong. Last time I checked, professional poker players pay income tax which fund quite a few social programs in our country. Furthermore, they provide a service to losing poker players by simply being there and thus providing entertainment and a possibility for other players to win their money.

[NT!]

Depending on the city you live in, there are places where the homeless really DON'T need food, they get fed all the time at shelters and drop-in centers. Other places, the services are less available and they need the food just as much as the money.

The best use of money for the homeless in the former situation is any kind of program that gets them into long-term treatment and rehab. These are chronically ill people (mentally and physically) who often have multiple debilitating conditions. What we spend on them for shelter and health care is literally insane.

There's an interesting initiative called Housing First in homeless policy. Basically, many people who are chronically homeless refuse to enter treatment programs or transitional housing, because it doesn't appeal to them. Their lives suck but so do those programs, and they make a choice. Housing First programs put homeless people in apartments of their own and give them VOLUNTARY access to mental health and substance abuse services, etc. The person contributes part of their SSI or SSDI income (many homeless have this) to the rent.

It might sound crazy and counterintuitive, but for long-term, chronically homeless individuals, these programs are actually more cost-effective than existing treatment models (usually emergency shelter coupled with drug treatment and job training) because they are so much more successful at getting people off the streets and reducing costs to the other public systems that they impact (law enforcement, health care industry, homeless services, etc). The movement has enjoyed broad support, both in the traditionally left-leaning social services sector, but also from our current administration, which is intrigued by its cost-cutting features.

So if you are interested in helping someone who is homeless and buying food isn't all that useful, see if there are any Housing First programs in your area. I know this is sort of a tangent, but homelessness is an interesting and complex issue, thought it might be useful.

[jtr]

Can you really not see his point, Kyle? I don't think he's derailing the thread at all. Just because professional poker players often pay income tax, that doesn't change the "non-productive outsider" status that they have in common with panhandlers.

And well done to you for your direct-action charity.