Batman VS. Batman Begins

[SNOWBALL]

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I also don't like the whole Ninja Brigade thing in Begins. I want his training to be more Miyagi-like.

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Bale was well-trained before he met R'as. Didn't you see him waste those fools in the prison yard?

[EvanJC]

i love both movies. i give the edge to both keaton and batman by a very slim margin. begins was great, but i really thought both villians were super weak. and no jack, obv.

[Rearden]

Nicholson's Joker was comedic and out there. As a HUGE comic book fan I can say that that take on the Joker has disapeared a lot in the past say... twenty years.

If you read Batman comics you'll note the general tone change inspired in part by Frank Millers "Dark Knight Returns" (imo the best single Batman arc of all time). Miller took camp and recreated it. Batman no longer had a motorcycle sidecar with a Robin in it. He was no longer a happy go lucky socialite that just happened to fight crime. He was dark. He was violent. And he was really [censored] scary/intense.

The difference's in these two Batman views carried over into the movies. 89's Batman had some camp, Keaton seemed dark but more emo than angry or focused, Nicholson's Joker (though solid in his own right) was more focused on being weird than being evil, etc.

Begins stayed far more accurate to the comics (and if the storyline hasnt much changed in like 70 years of success... leave it be). Begins had Bale being pretty pissed off and showing it; not the limp wristed portrayal that Keaton gave. Also in Begins.... though Ra's Al Ghul is a relatively unknown villian to non-comic readers... let me assure you... Liam Neeson WAS Ra's Al Ghul; it might have been the most accurate depiction of a comic book villan in any movie (as far as mannerisms and attitudes, though there were minor flubs like not including his super hot daughter, league of assasins not league of shadows, etc).

The Dark Knight supposedly will keep the ball rolling with respect to the franchise now staying away from camp and being serious with an angry character; thats what Batman is all about, regret, anger, repressed guilt, and lashing out. The best way I've ever seen Bruce Wayne's vendetta described in the comics is that he exists so that he would never have to exist again (meaning someone lose their parents to crime, suffer, devote their life to fighting crime, etc). Joker's depiction in Dark Knight is supposedly drawn from "The Killing Joke" (a Batman mini-arc done by Alan Moore of V for Vendetta fame). In that arc there are jokes to be sure, but most arent funny, most are omgwtfbbq evil. We're talking about a Joker that is certainly not PG here... and I hope no matter who the actor (no Brokeback Mountain scenes please) is they run wild with that. A serious Joker, the continued development of Batman (with more focus on his detective aspects so he solves the crimes then kicks major ass), and the slow introduction of other comic lynch pin characters (Harvey Dent in this one... not yet Two-Face though) will allow this franchise to pump out movies long after Spiderman died in laughable camp/mediocrity



..... I should really do an "Ask me about DC comics" thread but 1; I dont think we're all that nerdy and 2; Some one would ask me about the X-men just because.

[JuntMonkey]

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Joker's depiction in Dark Knight is supposedly drawn from "The Killing Joke" (a Batman mini-arc done by Alan Moore of V for Vendetta fame). In that arc there are jokes to be sure, but most arent funny, most are omgwtfbbq evil. We're talking about a Joker that is certainly not PG here... and I hope no matter who the actor (no Brokeback Mountain scenes please) is they run wild with that. A serious Joker, the continued development of Batman (with more focus on his detective aspects so he solves the crimes then kicks major ass), and the slow introduction of other comic lynch pin characters (Harvey Dent in this one... not yet Two-Face though) will allow this franchise to pump out movies long after Spiderman died in laughable camp/mediocrity

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Will it mean he also grabs Batman's ass, inquires suggestively about the Boy Wonder, is skilled in hand-to-hand combat, and is way too smart to fall for Vicki Vale kissing him on the [censored] shoulder?

[Blarg]

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The first Batman was the one that single-handedly turned around everyone's ideas of how good a superhero movie could be.

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No, that was Superman.

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You mean the franchise that was long since dead by then and whose ever worse sequels helped to make the genre, virtually unsellable before the success of the first Superman, anathema to serious money and the public alike after?

[Blarg]

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Bale was a better batman but Batman was eons better than begins. Nicholson was amazing as the Joker.

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QFMFT

[Rearden]

JuntMonkey,

If you're into that stuff.... not that there's anything wrong with that... you likely dont want to read newer comics.

There is a huge difference in comics in general in the past 20-30 years in terms of depth and darkness. I can not even begin to make sense of some of the [censored] produced in the 50's etc; but I also dont want to. I dont have the link handy but there's a website devoted to stupid DC covers and panels of an odd or suggestive nature. Though it is a pretty funny website I'm glad no content has been newer than like 1980.

[jthegreat]

Bale was good, but nothing has touched the original Batman. Keaton IS Batman.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]

Nicholson's Joker was comedic and out there. As a HUGE comic book fan I can say that that take on the Joker has disapeared a lot in the past say... twenty years.

If you read Batman comics you'll note the general tone change inspired in part by Frank Millers "Dark Knight Returns" (imo the best single Batman arc of all time). Miller took camp and recreated it. Batman no longer had a motorcycle sidecar with a Robin in it. He was no longer a happy go lucky socialite that just happened to fight crime. He was dark. He was violent. And he was really [censored] scary/intense.

The difference's in these two Batman views carried over into the movies. 89's Batman had some camp, Keaton seemed dark but more emo than angry or focused, Nicholson's Joker (though solid in his own right) was more focused on being weird than being evil, etc.

Begins stayed far more accurate to the comics (and if the storyline hasnt much changed in like 70 years of success... leave it be). Begins had Bale being pretty pissed off and showing it; not the limp wristed portrayal that Keaton gave. Also in Begins.... though Ra's Al Ghul is a relatively unknown villian to non-comic readers... let me assure you... Liam Neeson WAS Ra's Al Ghul; it might have been the most accurate depiction of a comic book villan in any movie (as far as mannerisms and attitudes, though there were minor flubs like not including his super hot daughter, league of assasins not league of shadows, etc).

The Dark Knight supposedly will keep the ball rolling with respect to the franchise now staying away from camp and being serious with an angry character; thats what Batman is all about, regret, anger, repressed guilt, and lashing out. The best way I've ever seen Bruce Wayne's vendetta described in the comics is that he exists so that he would never have to exist again (meaning someone lose their parents to crime, suffer, devote their life to fighting crime, etc). Joker's depiction in Dark Knight is supposedly drawn from "The Killing Joke" (a Batman mini-arc done by Alan Moore of V for Vendetta fame). In that arc there are jokes to be sure, but most arent funny, most are omgwtfbbq evil. We're talking about a Joker that is certainly not PG here... and I hope no matter who the actor (no Brokeback Mountain scenes please) is they run wild with that. A serious Joker, the continued development of Batman (with more focus on his detective aspects so he solves the crimes then kicks major ass), and the slow introduction of other comic lynch pin characters (Harvey Dent in this one... not yet Two-Face though) will allow this franchise to pump out movies long after Spiderman died in laughable camp/mediocrity



..... I should really do an "Ask me about DC comics" thread but 1; I dont think we're all that nerdy and 2; Some one would ask me about the X-men just because.

[/ QUOTE ]

great post rearden. You captured my thoughts on the Joker exactly. Plz do an ask me about DC comics thread!

[tdarko]

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good point, it will interesting to see if Heath can shed his BBM stereotype.

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Wtf? Are people this dense and think that Heath only does gay cowboy movies or something?

A BBM stereotype seems strange to me, every chick I know thinks of him as a "hottie" and every guy I know thinks of him as an ok actor that hits and misses. For instance, in my circle of friends we dig Lords of Dogtown mainly b/c of him (though the movie is kind of meh). That comment is just weird b/c if you go back through what he has been in it has either been a crappy movie but casted b/c of looks or a decent movie in which he has a smaller role and does well with it.