Thoughts on being a Caucasian American

[MicroBob]

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The reason for this is that most of this country's powerful institutions are basically the white equivalent of "historically black" colleges and fraternities. Every time I hear a white kid complain about "Well the black kids started their own 'black' fraternity and everyone is ok with that, but if we started a white fraternity we would be expelled", I want to kick them in the face. I go to Upenn, and the 4-5 most popular fraternities are either all jewish, all white, all preppy people, or all rich people. They are 95%+ all white. I'm pretty sure it's the exact same thing at most other schools, or at least the best schools, maybe with less of the rich kid thing that's in the Ivy League. No one calls BS on them, you are wrong. These all white institutions of power go on from college all through life until you die. It's basically impossible for black kids to join them, but no one ever says much.

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This reminds me of a friend of mine from high-school.

Background - I grew up in a small college-town that is pretty much as you describe. Not many minorities at Miami of Ohio University.
The high-school was pretty much the same. Probably 95% white or higher.


Friend of mine is a black girl. But her parents are divorced and she lives with her Mom who is white.

Maybe once a year she would visit her Dad and other relatives in Detroit and was struck by how awkward she felt when she was surrounded by black people and in mostly black neighborhoods even though she was black herself.

She was a 4.0 student in high-school and I assume had really high SAT scores, etc.
She was laughing at all the colleges that were begging to give her a scholarship to come to their school to fill their affirmative-action quota.
"Ha, they all want to pay my way just because of the color of my skin. This is hilarious."

She went to NYU for undergrad and then Cal-Berkeley for graduate school.

[MicroBob]

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Not nearly as bad or dangerous as a bunch of rednecks saying the N-word to some black guy or inter-racial couple they might see on the street but it's the first time I felt like perhaps I could start to identify with that kind of feeling of intimidation.


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I don't know man...futbol houligans are scary as hell.

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I really didn't know.
I know that fans of other teams have killed each other before. But I assume that was mostly a drunk or two telling the guys from team A that they suck, etc.

I was just keeping my head down and not trying to ruffle any feathers or anything.

No idea what other words they were saying with 'gringo' because I don't speak spanish but it was probably something like "Gringo Go Home!!"

I was definitely somewhat intimidated in that situation.
I'm as pale-white as can be with blue eyes so I kind of stuck out.
(GF's 7-year-old cousin couldn't stop staring at my eyes. perhaps the first time she had ever seen blue eyes I guess)

I told GF that I thought we needed to get out of there NOW.
I kind of got that vibe but it might have just been my paranoia.

Her Dad calls over a cab, tells him where we're going, cabbie says I'll take you there for X-amount, and her Dad declines.
They haggle over a $3 cab-ride to wait for the next cab who will take you for $2.
Arrrgh. Was kind of frustrating me.

But he's been to a bunch of soccer matches in the city for several decades so I assume he can recognize better than me when fans after the game are just being kind of unruly or silly without being too dangerous.

[owsley]

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She was a 4.0 student in high-school and I assume had really high SAT scores, etc.
She was laughing at all the colleges that were begging to give her a scholarship to come to their school to fill their affirmative-action quota.
"Ha, they all want to pay my way just because of the color of my skin. This is hilarious."

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That is a totally absurd and meaningless anecdote. That is the, uh, definite exception for black students. For every one girl like that I could find you 100 who probably didn't view being black as a humorous competitive advantage. The aid system has improved a lot in recent years, but things like that and affirmative action generally only help better off minorities rather than the ones who have it the worst. Lastly, if he had a 4.0 and great SATs she was probably getting a scholarship because she deserved it, not only because she was black. There really are not that many black kids with 4.0s and great resumes, they are a rare commodity for admissions officers to get.

[gumpzilla]

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Lastly, if he had a 4.0 and great SATs she was probably getting a scholarship because she deserved it, not only because she was black. There really are not that many black kids with 4.0s and great resumes, they are a rare commodity for admissions officers to get.

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Neglecting the contradictory nature of these two sentences back to back, I'd say that a 4.0 and great SATs are hardly a lock to win you significant scholarship money. Race would clearly be a factor, as it sounds like his friend acknowledged.

Your other point - that this usually favors well-off minorities rather than poor ones - is a good one. I tend to believe that economic-based affirmative action would make somewhat more sense than race-based. Perhaps the current financial aid system accomplishes some of that, but I'm not sure.

[dylan's alias]

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Something like eating a hot-dog and a beer at a baseball game strikes me as being distinctly American.

Hot-dog was invented in the U.S., right?

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Wrong.

From Wikipedia:

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It is often assumed that sausages were invented by Sumerians in what is Iraq today, around 3000 BC. Chinese sausage làcháng which consisted of goat and lamb meat, was first mentioned in 589 BC. Homer, the poet of The Ancient Greece, mentioned a kind of blood sausage in the Odyssey (book 20, verse 25) , and Epicharmus (ca. 550 BC - ca. 460 BC) wrote a comedy titled The Sausage . Evidence suggests that sausages were already popular both among the ancient Greeks and Romans.

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[guids]

You are kind of proving my point, you really only are hearing about the top 10% of the wackos out there. I hang out with a ton of black kids, and NONE of them have ever expressed anything similar to this, "normal" people, "everyday people", imo all pretty much have the same viewpoints. I guess it may be a different situation becuase a lot of us grew up in the same neighborhood, and have similar backgrounds, but generally you are only not-liked if you are a douche, someone's race really isnt an issue. I understand that there is racism out there, but I think it is just a small percentage on both sides, yet they get all the attention.

[MicroBob]

I didn't say she wasn't an exception.

She got about a zillion more offers for free-rides than did any of her friends with equivilent academics.

She's a smart girl so I thought she was deserving of the scholarship offers and told her so.

In a way, I think she felt kind of used. She felt like the only reason they were drooling over her SO much was because she could help them fill their quota for black people.

Something like that anyway. She was 17 and I was 18 so it's not like we had all the answers on everything.
Just some observations she was making which I found interesting and which have kind of always stuck with me for some reason.

[samsonite2100]

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I'm white in America and I often wonder what my "culture" is. I'm not sure we really have one. Is it because we don't have anything that's ours, or is it because there is something "wrong" about White pride?

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1) White people have plenty of culture, wtf? The reason you might not think of it as such is b/c it's so omnipresent you don't notice it. Off the top of my head, MTV, the entire movie industry since its inception, every major corporation, etc. IOW, black history month stands out because it's given a name, but guess what the other 11 months are...

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There is no name that causes us to go into a fury. Every other race has a demeaning name that can cause radio hosts to get fired. Call me "honky" or "cracker" and I'll laugh. The terms "redneck" or "white trash" are more economic monikers than racial. Call a group of black women "nappy headed-ho's" and you lose your job after being front page news for a week, call a white woman a "straight haired ho" and you may rile up a group of feminists, but most likely everyone will just think you're a chauvinist.

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"Honky" isn't offensive b/c, yes, white people as a group are comparatively advantaged--isn't that obvious? OTOH, try going to a trailer park and calling people "white trash." That has impact b/c those people are a cultural and economic disadvantage. Calling someone a honky is just pointing out their position of cultural/racial advantage. Big deal.

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Have we been taught to be apologetic for being white? Is there a guilt that we are supposed to feel because our ancestors invaded a land that wasn't theirs, wiped out natural resources and forced the natives onto reservations, stole others from their homelands to come here and work in our fields and sweep our floors?

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Well, when you put it that way...

I don't think you or I need to feel personally guilty about what our great-grandfathers did. A passive acknowledgement of these historical facts, and the cultural advantage they've given us seems appropriate, though.

[gumpzilla]

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Something like eating a hot-dog and a beer at a baseball game strikes me as being distinctly American.

Hot-dog was invented in the U.S., right?

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Wrong.

From Wikipedia:

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It is often assumed that sausages were invented by Sumerians in what is Iraq today, around 3000 BC. Chinese sausage làcháng which consisted of goat and lamb meat, was first mentioned in 589 BC. Homer, the poet of The Ancient Greece, mentioned a kind of blood sausage in the Odyssey (book 20, verse 25) , and Epicharmus (ca. 550 BC - ca. 460 BC) wrote a comedy titled The Sausage . Evidence suggests that sausages were already popular both among the ancient Greeks and Romans.

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Trolling the ED forum? Boooo.

[KJS]

Oxford represent! What a fun place to flunk out of school!

Skippers cheese fries. MMMMMM.

KJS