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#21
05-11-2007, 12:36 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
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[ QUOTE ] Trust me, I'm right on this one. [/ QUOTE ]Sorry, I don't. I put a little more trust that David, who has known and played with top pros longer than most of us have even been in this game, has pretty good idea of how his works are regarded by them. Not that it matters to me one way or the other. His books have certainly made ME a better player, though I understand the limitations of them and that what they teach is only part of the puzzle. [/ QUOTE ] Trust a guy that's actually sat and played with several world class players or the guy that hasn't. Toughie. 
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#22
05-11-2007, 12:36 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And as I explained I think his premise is completely false. [/ QUOTE ]Do you have evidence that the greatest players, many whom you have listed, have not read or have little regard for David's books? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I have right here signed affidavits from the 20 winningest players... Um, no. I don't have 'evidence'. However I have read specific quotes from some of the great/supposedly great that they have never read any poker books (Ivey and Benyamine off the top of my head). I believe Barry G. on 2+2 expressed a similar lack of interest in poker books. Others I am virtually certain based on common sense likely haven't read any 2+2 books at all. Chau, Doyle, Chip. Many others from the Internet generation I know for a fact do not feel they have gotten much from 2+2 books, if they have read any at all. Trust me, I'm right on this one. Like I said before I'm not bashing 2+2 books, just DS's absurdly exaggerations. [/ QUOTE ] Where is it stated that most players from the "Internet generation" are very good players? Also, it is true that many players have not read a book, and no one is claiming you MUST read them... but ask yourself how long it took them to get to a given level vs. someone who has read and studied the game and also gotten to that level.
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#23
05-11-2007, 12:38 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
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[ QUOTE ] However I have read specific quotes from some of the great/supposedly great that they have never read any poker books (Ivey and Benyamine off the top of my head) [/ QUOTE ] Sorry but you are wrong about Phil Ivey. I have a DVD where he admits to reading poker books and recommends poker books to beginning players. [/ QUOTE ] I could have sworn I read in an interview that he didn't seriously read any poker books when he got started. Anyway obviously he's going to recommend poker books to beginners. All that aside are you guys seriously arguing my point that Ivey is not a 2+2 admirer? Hopefully Barry Greenstein will come in here and kill this thread by telling you all I am right. (I wrote his full name so he doesn't miss this post when he searches for himself.)
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#24
05-11-2007, 12:38 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
You just can't argue with math. He teaches you the math side of the game very well. Sure there are other skills that a great poker player will use as well, but you can't deny that you need math of some form to play this game well. I think his books are some of the best out there. I especially like no limit holdem theory and practice.
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#25
05-11-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Trust me, I'm right on this one. [/ QUOTE ]Sorry, I don't. I put a little more trust that David, who has known and played with top pros longer than most of us have even been in this game, has pretty good idea of how his works are regarded by them. Not that it matters to me one way or the other. His books have certainly made ME a better player, though I understand the limitations of them and that what they teach is only part of the puzzle. [/ QUOTE ] Trust a guy that's actually sat and played with several world class players or the guy that hasn't. Toughie. [/ QUOTE ] Umm... I've played with several world class players. (Not that that is really germane to the issue.) Who is the other guy who supposedly has? Surely you're not thinking of Sklansky...
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#26
05-11-2007, 12:40 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
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But it IS still very useful if you are a good enough player to read even pretty tough opponents. Something only great players do well Sometime the best mechanics arent the guys that fix the problem, they are the guys at finding the problem. Your books will tell a player the best course of action to take, after the player puts the opponent on a specific hand. Knowing what the opponent holds, sometimes take more skill than knowing what action to take. [/ QUOTE ] But when the mechanic finds the problem, I sure would like him to know how to fix it..... and fix it the best it can be fixed.
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#27
05-11-2007, 12:40 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
However I have read specific quotes from some of the great/supposedly great that they have never read any poker books (Ivey and Benyamine off the top of my head).
The Ivey quote is not accurate. Before Phil Ivey started playing poker for a living, he worked as a telemarketer in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Someone that worked for me worked with Phil Ivey. According to the fellow that worked for me Phil Ivey carried a copy of Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players with him, and would read the book whenever he was not on a phone call.
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#28
05-11-2007, 12:43 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
[ QUOTE ]
However I have read specific quotes from some of the great/supposedly great that they have never read any poker books (Ivey and Benyamine off the top of my head). The Ivey quote is not accurate. Before Phil Ivey started playing poker for a living, he worked as a telemarketer in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Someone that worked for me worked with Phil Ivey. According to the fellow that worked for me Phil Ivey carried a copy of Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players with him, and would read the book whenever he was not on a phone call. [/ QUOTE ] Ok I guess I have to concede the point that Ivey has read a 2+2 book in his life. I honestly think he did say something that sort of implied the contrary, but w/e. Anyway Ivey reading a 2+2 book DNE "great players love 2+2 books". After all according to this thread Rugby has read everything by Ken Warren.
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#29
05-11-2007, 12:46 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
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Hopefully Barry Greenstein will come in here and kill this thread by telling you all I am right. [/ QUOTE ]Barry G coming into this thread and saying he doesn't have high regard for 2+2 books would not make your point. If he came in and said that most top pros he knows do not have a high regard for 2+2 books, then that would add a counterweight to Sklansky's statement.
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#30
05-11-2007, 12:49 PM
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Re: Why Great Players Often Like My Stuff More Than Good Players
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I could have sworn I read in an interview that he didn't seriously read any poker books when he got started. [/ QUOTE ] That part is correct, he said in the interview (This DVD has been out for quite a while, they introduce him as the youngest player to ever win a WSOP bracelet) that he didn't know there were any books about poker until just recently and clearly stated he has read poker books, he implied that he had read pretty much everything available.
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