something I can't figure out about terrorism...

[cardcounter0]

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Here, I will save you some time.
ter·ror·ism
NOUN:
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

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so by this definition, people who hang out in front of abortion clinics and try to intimidate people from entering are terrorists, right?

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No, not unless they use threats of violence or force. If they do use force or violence, then they are arrested.

I am sure any terrorism task force worth it's salt, has the radical anti-abortion groups on their radar. Along with the violent eco-groups, and the violent skin head groups, etc, etc ...

[BCPVP]

Snowball, I think you have to account for the "need" to achieve a large act of violence. 9/11 set the bar pretty high. You don't start throwing snap dragons after setting off the M-80's, do you?

[theweatherman]

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more ideas:

I saw this one on law and order criminal intent. You replace pharmaceutical bottles with doctored ones. If you are good enough at sleight of hand, a video camera couldn't even tell you were doing this. Obviously, some of the pills, but not all, would be lethal, and the rest would be normal. This is a way for a built in stochastic time delay on people dying, so that the store won't just get shut down on the first day. That way more people buy your products.

If you vary the products that you sabotage, then it's even better. Do different sections of the store. Make some mayonaisse deadly but only the mayo on the bottom of the jar. Same with peanut butter, jelly, different spices, etc.
If you did this at a store like walmart, you would wreak havoc and cause terror. They might even have replace all the inventory and shut down the whole store for weeks or more.

If I can come up with half-decent ideas like this pretty easily, then some terrorists should be able to come up with much better ones, and execute some of them.

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Terrorism is ment to be visible and shocking. A slow bleed of deaths from poisin isnt really what terrorists have in mind because it doesnt accomplish the same goals.

[Barcalounger]

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Terrorism is ment to be visible and shocking. A slow bleed of deaths from poisin isnt really what terrorists have in mind because it doesnt accomplish the same goals.

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Uh, have you seen all the news coverage of some cats dying due to recalled pet food? Multiply that by a couple thousand times if it was poisoned big macs. I would think that if your goal was causing fear in people (TERRORism), then hitting them in the food or water would be one of the most visible, shocking, and would have the longest lasting effects.

[vhawk01]

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more ideas:

I saw this one on law and order criminal intent. You replace pharmaceutical bottles with doctored ones. If you are good enough at sleight of hand, a video camera couldn't even tell you were doing this. Obviously, some of the pills, but not all, would be lethal, and the rest would be normal. This is a way for a built in stochastic time delay on people dying, so that the store won't just get shut down on the first day. That way more people buy your products.

If you vary the products that you sabotage, then it's even better. Do different sections of the store. Make some mayonaisse deadly but only the mayo on the bottom of the jar. Same with peanut butter, jelly, different spices, etc.
If you did this at a store like walmart, you would wreak havoc and cause terror. They might even have replace all the inventory and shut down the whole store for weeks or more.

If I can come up with half-decent ideas like this pretty easily, then some terrorists should be able to come up with much better ones, and execute some of them.

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Terrorism is ment to be visible and shocking. A slow bleed of deaths from poisin isnt really what terrorists have in mind because it doesnt accomplish the same goals.

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This seems incredibly wrong to me, and I can only hope that terrorists in general are this naive. Doing the things Snowball has suggested would be FAR more effective than 9/11 was. Sure, people were afraid to fly in planes for a couple months, but imagine if you were terrified to go to the grocery store/gas station/outside. From a cost-benefit standpoint, Snowball>>>>>Bin Laden.

[iron81]

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Terrorism is ment to be visible and shocking. A slow bleed of deaths from poisin isnt really what terrorists have in mind because it doesnt accomplish the same goals.

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Anthrax.

[Copernicus]

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more ideas:

I saw this one on law and order criminal intent. You replace pharmaceutical bottles with doctored ones. If you are good enough at sleight of hand, a video camera couldn't even tell you were doing this. Obviously, some of the pills, but not all, would be lethal, and the rest would be normal. This is a way for a built in stochastic time delay on people dying, so that the store won't just get shut down on the first day. That way more people buy your products.

If you vary the products that you sabotage, then it's even better. Do different sections of the store. Make some mayonaisse deadly but only the mayo on the bottom of the jar. Same with peanut butter, jelly, different spices, etc.
If you did this at a store like walmart, you would wreak havoc and cause terror. They might even have replace all the inventory and shut down the whole store for weeks or more.

If I can come up with half-decent ideas like this pretty easily, then some terrorists should be able to come up with much better ones, and execute some of them.

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Terrorism is ment to be visible and shocking. A slow bleed of deaths from poisin isnt really what terrorists have in mind because it doesnt accomplish the same goals.

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This seems incredibly wrong to me, and I can only hope that terrorists in general are this naive. Doing the things Snowball has suggested would be FAR more effective than 9/11 was. Sure, people were afraid to fly in planes for a couple months, but imagine if you were terrified to go to the grocery store/gas station/outside. From a cost-benefit standpoint, Snowball>>>>>Bin Laden.

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That isnt the way people are wired. Israelis still go to school, still go to the market, still ride buses, still congregate in Temples, despite the persistent threat of suicide bombers. Eventually people come to accept the risks as part of every day life and stop altering their lifestyle for them.

[vhawk01]

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more ideas:

I saw this one on law and order criminal intent. You replace pharmaceutical bottles with doctored ones. If you are good enough at sleight of hand, a video camera couldn't even tell you were doing this. Obviously, some of the pills, but not all, would be lethal, and the rest would be normal. This is a way for a built in stochastic time delay on people dying, so that the store won't just get shut down on the first day. That way more people buy your products.

If you vary the products that you sabotage, then it's even better. Do different sections of the store. Make some mayonaisse deadly but only the mayo on the bottom of the jar. Same with peanut butter, jelly, different spices, etc.
If you did this at a store like walmart, you would wreak havoc and cause terror. They might even have replace all the inventory and shut down the whole store for weeks or more.

If I can come up with half-decent ideas like this pretty easily, then some terrorists should be able to come up with much better ones, and execute some of them.

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Terrorism is ment to be visible and shocking. A slow bleed of deaths from poisin isnt really what terrorists have in mind because it doesnt accomplish the same goals.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems incredibly wrong to me, and I can only hope that terrorists in general are this naive. Doing the things Snowball has suggested would be FAR more effective than 9/11 was. Sure, people were afraid to fly in planes for a couple months, but imagine if you were terrified to go to the grocery store/gas station/outside. From a cost-benefit standpoint, Snowball>>>>>Bin Laden.

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That isnt the way people are wired. Israelis still go to school, still go to the market, still ride buses, still congregate in Temples, despite the persistent threat of suicide bombers. Eventually people come to accept the risks as part of every day life and stop altering their lifestyle for them.

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I think you have it almost right, but a little backwards. People eventually stop being terrified...of course that is true. But they do not stop altering their lives, and the Israelis are a good example of this.

But you raise a good point, which is something that I probably incorrectly asserted. What ARE the actual goals of the terrorists? Causing Americans to enact laws and habits and customs that restrict their freedom fits in with the "Terrorists are pure evil and hate us for our freedom" paradigm, but probably isn't actually the goal most terrorists have in mind. 9/11 style attacks probably do accomplish some agendas better than what Snowball's plan would, and its important for us to understand exactly what the agenda is. Terrorism doesn't always equal terrorism does not always equal terrorism.

[cardcounter0]

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That isnt the way people are wired. Israelis still go to school, still go to the market, still ride buses, still congregate in Temples, despite the persistent threat of suicide bombers.

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That isnt the way some people are wired. During WWII, the UK still went about it's business despite bombings and V2 rocket attacks.

Here in the US, Tom Ridge making a speech on TV causes panic runs on stores for duct tape and plastic sheeting.
The "think of the children" chicken littles having had years to work on the public, coupled with the Administration pump up the fear tactics, only makes it more sure that even a minor terror event will cause widespread panic.

Look at some of the incidents that have caused airplanes to divert and be grounded. Examine shopping mall attendance figures after 9/11 when rumors of a mall bombing were spread.

The average fat suburban American is not a uzi-toting Israeli.

[vhawk01]

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That isnt the way people are wired. Israelis still go to school, still go to the market, still ride buses, still congregate in Temples, despite the persistent threat of suicide bombers.

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That isnt the way some people are wired. During WWII, the UK still went about it's business despite bombings and V2 rocket attacks.

Here in the US, Tom Ridge making a speech on TV causes panic runs on stores for duct tape and plastic sheeting.
The "think of the children" chicken littles having had years to work on the public, coupled with the Administration pump up the fear tactics, only makes it more sure that even a minor terror event will cause widespread panic.

Look at some of the incidents that have caused airplanes to divert and be grounded. Examine shopping mall attendance figures after 9/11 when rumors of a mall bombing were spread.

The average fat suburban American is not a uzi-toting Israeli.

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But I think they could be, and so I think maybe I agree with Copernicus here. Over time, the average fat suburban American WOULD be like an uzi-toting Israeli....which is terrifying to me, but not necessarily the goal the terrorists have in mind. I'm very afraid of having to live like that, but I hope the terrorists think I am just afraid of getting hit by a plane.