Hmmmmm. Then I thought and said hmmmmmm again - Page 3

shaundeeb · #1 05-08-2007, 04:48 AM

at first I thought this was an easy call but the more I think about this hand the more I want to call. I think his range is more middle to weaker side of a tight range which makes me more likely to call with JJ because I personal am discounting AA/KK a lot and think he shows up with a lower pair enough for a call.

NoahSD · #2 05-08-2007, 08:33 AM

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at first I thought this was an easy call but the more I think about this hand the more I want to call. I think his range is more middle to weaker side of a tight range which makes me more likely to call with JJ because I personal am discounting AA/KK a lot and think he shows up with a lower pair enough for a call.

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This argument would be fine except for the fact that a range like JJ/QQ/AKs still crushes us.

registrar · #3 05-08-2007, 08:54 AM

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at first I thought this was an easy call but the more I think about this hand the more I want to call. I think his range is more middle to weaker side of a tight range which makes me more likely to call with JJ because I personal am discounting AA/KK a lot and think he shows up with a lower pair enough for a call.

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This argument would be fine except for the fact that a range like JJ/QQ/AKs still crushes us.

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As far as I see it, most BBs will look down at 88-TT and know that a call will see themselves shoved off the hand and will thus shove themselves enough. The higher part of the range will call, a lot.

#4 05-08-2007, 08:56 AM

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at first I thought this was an easy call but the more I think about this hand the more I want to call. I think his range is more middle to weaker side of a tight range which makes me more likely to call with JJ because I personal am discounting AA/KK a lot and think he shows up with a lower pair enough for a call.

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This argument would be fine except for the fact that a range like JJ/QQ/AKs still crushes us.

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I think Shaun is saying that his range is something more like 88+/AQ+

shaundeeb · #5 05-08-2007, 09:04 AM

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at first I thought this was an easy call but the more I think about this hand the more I want to call. I think his range is more middle to weaker side of a tight range which makes me more likely to call with JJ because I personal am discounting AA/KK a lot and think he shows up with a lower pair enough for a call.

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This argument would be fine except for the fact that a range like JJ/QQ/AKs still crushes us.

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I think Shaun is saying that his range is something more like 88+/AQ+

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ding and I am discounting the frequency of AA/KK

Soulman · #6 05-08-2007, 04:58 AM

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Wow. I'm a bit surprised by this thread. I call. What's your standard BB going to do with AQ here, or AJs, or 88? He's not folding and he's not calling... This shouldn't be an easy call but, early in an online MTT, this is more or less a snap call for me.

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I think AJs folds 70% or so (random number from my ass obv), 88 50/50? All guesses, but I do think there are a sufficient number of tighties that will fold here with those hands. I'm certainly folding AJs myself from the BB, and probably 88 too.

I would have assigned a range like this for the BB:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.402% 50.26% 01.14% 263333004 5996460.00 { 99+, AQs+, AKo }
Hand 1: 48.598% 47.45% 01.14% 248639100 5996460.00 { JJ }

with less weight on the KK/AA, which makes it a call in my book, but not a snap call.

Btw, does anyone know if it's possible to weigh some hands less in pokerstove and if so how?

Crispy · #7 05-08-2007, 07:19 AM

Fold quickly. There are sooooooooo many better spots to stick your money in. Ppl play so randomly early that they could both have AK, or the 2nd raiser could have QQ KK AA. Too many variables I think you have to fold. QQ+AK I would call cause we toss JJ into the 2nd raisers range.

woodguy · #8 05-08-2007, 07:19 PM

I tanked then folded.

I weighted AK, and QQ very heavily in my range, with TT, JJ,AQ less due to me being UTG, and AA/KK less for the overjam push, but KK more than AA.

I was suprised to see the hands and thought "are my ranges off or is this a one off?"

This isn't a ZOMG!!!111!! I WOULD HAVE WON ()%*#)(# post, but rather I was really questioning my default ranges.

I thought it was razor thin edge either way with "a bad feeling" so mucked. I don't think this is an auto muck.

I look at Che & shaundeeb's ranges and think "that's a little wide", and also RichC nailing BB's hand, and I think my ranges need adjusting...hence the post.

I really think that the percentage of time I'm dodging 1 less Ace because they each have one is important too, but I'm not sure how to quantify that.

Thanks for the input.

Regards,
Woodguy

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero (t2940)
UTG+1 (t310)
MP1 (t2530)
MP2 (t2880)
MP3 (t3670)
CO (t5810)
Button (t3020)
SB (t2770)
BB (t2950)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t60, UTG+1 raises to t310, 6 folds, BB raises to t2950, Hero folds.

Flop: (t3330) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t3330) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t3330) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t3330
Main Pot: t690 (t690), between UTG+1 and BB. >Pot won by UTG+1 (t690).
Pot 2: t2640 (t2640), between UTG+1 and BB. > Pot won by UTG+1 (t2640).

Results:
BB has Tc Td (one pair, tens).
UTG+1 has Ts Ad (one pair, aces).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins t3330.

#9 05-08-2007, 08:52 PM

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I was suprised to see the hands and thought "are my ranges off or is this a one off?"

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Why?? Sounds to me like the hand you were shown was 100% consistent with the range you assigned.

woodguy · #10 05-08-2007, 11:19 PM

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Why?? Sounds to me like the hand you were shown was 100% consistent with the range you assigned.

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I guess that's true, but when I looked at the BB push I was like "85%AK", I thought AQ plus for shorty, but really underweighted AQ/TT/JJ for BB.

Essentially I want to make sure I'm not becoming a nit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]