does bottom two ever go right?

[soah]

why are you putting in a huge checkraise on the flop if your plan is to check-fold the turn? sounds like a great plan if you have a gutshot, not so much when you have two pair.

[Joker757]

I really think that in the heat of the moment this is a hard fold. When villian calls I would think his hand range can be narrowed to AAA,A9,A8,888 or 999 or at worst AK. On the turn when you check and he shoves can he think that we c/r with something like AQ.

If he sees you as the player you say he does than 99.9% of the time your not c/r the flop with an open end str8 draw given the A on board and he raised UTG for him to only shove flop with bigger A and shut you out. If his read is correct then the 7 is a non threatening card given your image. By you checking you seem to say you have KK or even QQ and were testing the water and hoping for a cheap showdown. I dont think AQ makes the flop call but AA,AK,A9s as well as A8s and the set of 99's and 88's do. Which leaves us ahead of only one hand AK. While being dominated by every other hand in his range given his call. While its not an easy lay down think its the correct one. If you call your most likely drawing dead against his range of hands. You cant even hope for him to have two pair and you fill up on the end b/c any two pair he has on the flop contains at least one of your cards giving you at most 2 outs. IMO!

[Bigfoot]

I would be happy to call here and I admit that I'm nitty. I dont see why he can't interepret the way you played it as weakness instead of strength. I really dont see why it isnt possible he'd play AK/AQ this way. He could easily put you on the same hands or a bluff and then his turn push could be for value or a chop block or something. I really don't think you can fold bottom 2 here unless you're deeper.

Edit - I want to add that I don't see how this is ever a clear fold because 98 here is almost the same as 88. The only real difference is a few more combinations of A9. My point is that no one would ever advocate 88 as being a clear fold here so 98 cant be either.

[bet2win]

when you raise the flop you play for stacks

if you dont want to play for stacks then dont raise

check/folding the turn is terrible

[Joker757]

[ QUOTE ]
when you raise the flop you play for stacks

if you dont want to play for stacks then dont raise

check/folding the turn is terrible

[/ QUOTE ]

You say folding turn is terrible. Plz explain your reasoning. What range of hands do you put him on given his play through out the hand? In that range what hands are we ahead of. Do you not agree with my range of hands?

[iggymcfly]

Yeah, I don't like this line at all. You willingly bloat the [censored] out of the pot and then give up when you get one caller. If you don't think your opponents are loose enough to be calling this flop with AK, then you shouldn't be C/Ring a dry board.

Given your apparent reads, I like a lead on the flop and then continuing to bet the turn and river unless raised. If leading tends to telegraph big hands from you, then a C/C is OK for pot control. Just don't be making the massive C/R "to take it down" with two pair if you're going to give up every time you get called.

[jj12]

turn is a pretty bad card, no? it completes an oesd that is he doesn't have would suspect that we have. But still, push because he is a donk and checking sucks on this board.

[LAgambol]

dont listen to the nits, this is a call, of course villain would play AK like this, your line is weak, after you checked the turn you seem weak and hes pushing, theres no reason for the check raise if you dont want to play a big pot, theres no way he would fold AK, AQ, AJ to your flop raise, its pretty close, but no way i fold

[Riverrun]

[ QUOTE ]
i was the CO in the hand and it played out really weird.

i would prob fold in this hand just because it seemed as though UTG called, hoping I would call too.

if you bet turn, you're committed to calling, but I don't see how AK calls the flop raise and how you're ahead.

but maybe i give people too much credit for having hands?

[/ QUOTE ]


Jeff, what'd you fold here? AJ or something?

Agreed my c/raise was too big here. Was multitabling and just hit bet pot and didn't have time to adjust it down. I'd prob go something like $90ish.

But the more I think about it, the more I just like a lead here or a check/call. I checked knowing caide would c/bet any two and i wanted to see what c/o would do but, meh, what did i really find out? the c/r was bad and got me in the situation i was in, though i'd still take this line against a donk or if i'd been really active at the table.

in actual hand i folded. just was having trouble imagining i was ahead enough for it to be +EV. my reasoning was c/o probably folded an A so caide has to have a set or JT (if he's bad) or better 2 pair at least as often as he has AK (only 8 combos left). Plus i felt i had to discount possiblity of AK b/c of flop action and his turn shove.

so all in all, a badly played hand. lol. thanks for feedback.

[jfish]

[ QUOTE ]
why are you putting in a huge checkraise on the flop if your plan is to check-fold the turn? sounds like a great plan if you have a gutshot, not so much when you have two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

disagree i think this is a good turn to c/f. most of the hands hes shoving here arent 1 pair hands and we lose to pretty much everything else.