What makes someone Upper rather than Middle class?

[Duke]

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I think in the US the dividing line is probably around 250K/yr, give or take. Class typically means income almost exclusively, I think, here.

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For a family, or an individual?

I tend to think it has more to do with asking for A1 at Ruth's Chris.

[The DaveR]

ChipStorm, That's a good book, very fun, but I disagree with a lot of it.

Duke, Ruth's Chris is middle class any way you slice it, but > 250K for most one or two incomes doesn't matter much. They're expecting to make 500K in 10 years.

All, I think the notion of class as culture in the US is pretty empty. George Bush comes from as an aristocratic American family as one can (Andover, Yale, HBS) and yet his whole public persona is an attempt to persuade you of the opposite. The idea of class as some product of lineage really doesn't exist here.

[almostbusto]

as low as this sounds to some, if you make 6 figures (in USD) you are upper class, no matter where you are in the world.

some people will think this is silly but its really hard to argue that someone who has a higher income that 90-95% of world isn't upper class. Further, someone making 6 figures is easily doubling the national average.

people who make 200K and say they are middle class because they have 3 kids and they live in a very rich neighborhood where they are just average are just renaming themselves because is fashionable to be middle class in America.

EDIT: obviously I contend your class is strictly a function of wealth and income. I definitely think it is the case in any country that doesn't have apartheid or a caste system. The "cultural" definitions of class are flimsy, meaningless definitions made up by the feel-good sciences to drive conclusions that have already predetermined. ie "I think I am middle class, so any definition of middle class must have me in it, since i make 250k a year, class can't reasonably be defined by income."

[samsonite2100]

I disagree with the numbers here. 200K w/ 3 kids is middle class, although comfortably so. "Upper class" in America, as it's commonly used, means "rich." Which means you could own a boat. If you own, or could own, a boat in America, you're upper class.

[ChipWrecked]

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All, I think the notion of class as culture in the US is pretty empty. George Bush comes from as an aristocratic American family as one can (Andover, Yale, HBS) and yet his whole public persona is an attempt to persuade you of the opposite. The idea of class as some product of lineage really doesn't exist here.

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There is an aristocratic class in the U.S., Bush's attempt to dissuade the voting public from the concept notwithstanding.

I would say in the U.S. the age of your family's money has a lot to do with it. The older the money, the higher the class. Joe Kennedy was not upper class. He was a bootlegging thug. His grandchildren are upper class.

'Old Money' by Nelson Aldrich

A book on wealth and class in the U.S. by a member of an old money upper class American family.

[almostbusto]

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I disagree with the numbers here. 200K w/ 3 kids is middle class, although comfortably so. "Upper class" in America, as it's commonly used, means "rich." Which means you could own a boat. If you own, or could own, a boat in America, you're upper class.

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When you make 200k having 3 kids is no different than owning a really nice boat. Basically kids are a net liability for their first ~20 years or so, but the parents in all likelihood chose to have those kids. So its just a purchase they made. In America virtually nobody should have a problem managing their family size.

Similarly, I wouldn't call someone who blows all his income on fast cars middle class just because he is cash poor strictly due to his spending habits.

[prohornblower]

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"Upper class" in America, as it's commonly used, means "rich." Which means you could own a boat. If you own, or could own, a boat in America, you're upper class.

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lol. I'm pretty sure you're joking but I hope so. This thread is really silly. People are way off. $100K/year is nowhere near upper class. My brother is a firefigther/firetruck salesman who makes 6 figures. He also chews tobacco, likes Country music, owns a Dalmatian, and has a tattoo.

[Klompy]

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I disagree with the numbers here. 200K w/ 3 kids is middle class, although comfortably so. "Upper class" in America, as it's commonly used, means "rich." Which means you could own a boat. If you own, or could own, a boat in America, you're upper class.

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How bad are all you guys with money? You don't nead 200k a year to own a nice boat and other toys.

[luckyjimm]

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"Upper class" in America, as it's commonly used, means "rich." Which means you could own a boat. If you own, or could own, a boat in America, you're upper class.

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lol. I'm pretty sure you're joking but I hope so. This thread is really silly. People are way off. $100K/year is nowhere near upper class. My brother is a firefigther/firetruck salesman who makes 6 figures. He also chews tobacco, likes Country music, owns a Dalmatian, and has a tattoo.

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Pics?

[The DaveR]

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Joe Kennedy was not upper class. He was a bootlegging thug. His grandchildren are upper class.

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But are they? For the most part the ones I read about strike me as just your standard rich family people. Obviously having several generations of wealth does a lot to smooth the coarseness and gauche idiosyncrasies of the original earner, but do people in the US actually show deference to them for having that family history? The real difference between them and any number of other people from rich families is that their name is famous.

Also, no one "owns" a boat.