President Bush is a Dangerous Guy

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They've ruined their credibility -- they never had any
destroyed public approval -- approval <> profit
helped eliminate the republican majority in congress -- good times, made plenty while it lasted.

Hahahaha! The Bush administration is like letting a member of the Mafia become a silent business partner. Your business will be looted, all your creditors will be holding stiffed and left the bag, and right before you declare bankruptcy your building will burn down for the insurance settlement.

Now you might argue the Mob business partners did a poor job, ruining the long term prospects of the company, but they will just laugh, count their profits, and look for the next company to loot.

[samsonite2100]

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So what? By every other metric of success--quelling terrorism, establishing democracy, creating a legacy, aiding Israel, enhancing public opinion and domestic political clout, increasing US armed forces' strength, proving the neocons correct, etc., the Iraq War has been a failure. Posting a graph of Halliburton's stock prices from 2001 is simplistic at best and not much of a response.

As far as other disasters for the Bush adminstration affected directly or indirectly by lack of accountability/cronyism, I can name Katrina, Harriet Miers, the current Gonzalez scandal, the Abramoff affair, the Plame affair, Tom Delay, Abu Ghraib/Gitmo, and that's off the top of my head.

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Why should Bush care about the latter things? Clearly you did not understand pvn's post.

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Because they've undercut the ability of his adminstration to govern they way they want to. They've ruined their credibility, destroyed public approval, and helped eliminate the republican majority in congress.

And I understood his post just fine, thanks, inasmuch as one can "understand" the one-liners that pass for political discourse around here.

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Why does he care about any of those things?

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Why do Bush and his administration care about being able to accomplish their political goals, you're asking?

[TomCollins]

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Why do Bush and his administration care about being able to accomplish their political goals, you're asking?

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That assumes that he has political goals other than the ones he has accomplished.

[samsonite2100]

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They've ruined their credibility -- they never had any
destroyed public approval -- approval <> profit
helped eliminate the republican majority in congress -- good times, made plenty while it lasted.

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They had tons of credibility post 9/11, pre-Iraq. Heaps.

Public approval very much has to do with profit. No public approval equals no majority in Congress/losing the '08 presidential race equals the troops getting pulled sooner rather than later and democrats deciding where money goes equals less profits.

Also, I'm wholly uninterested in an argument with someone who thinks that Iraq and the entirety of US policy is exclusively about lining people's pockets. You're free to believe that, but there's no discussion to be had, really.

[samsonite2100]

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Why do Bush and his administration care about being able to accomplish their political goals, you're asking?

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That assumes that he has political goals other than the ones he has accomplished.

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Which he and the neocons demonstrably did.

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Okay, I agree, the Bush Admin has done a very poor job of meeting the imaginary goals that you think they have.

[tolbiny]

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So what? By every other metric of success--quelling terrorism, establishing democracy, creating a legacy, aiding Israel, enhancing public opinion and domestic political clout, increasing US armed forces' strength, proving the neocons correct, etc., the Iraq War has been a failure. Posting a graph of Halliburton's stock prices from 2001 is simplistic at best and not much of a response.

As far as other disasters for the Bush adminstration affected directly or indirectly by lack of accountability/cronyism, I can name Katrina, Harriet Miers, the current Gonzalez scandal, the Abramoff affair, the Plame affair, Tom Delay, Abu Ghraib/Gitmo, and that's off the top of my head.

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Now, obviously, I am not a Bush fan. However, it can't be denied that the absolute number one metric of success is 100% positive - That metric is terrorist attacks on the U.S. You can argue about causation and correlation and you can argue that the country is actually more dangerous. But, the fact remains.

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So what Utah?
The undeniable fact is that more people died during Bush's first term from "terrorism" than under any other president before him. That point is more valid than yours since it covers his entire presidency, not just 5 cherry picked years.

[samsonite2100]

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Okay, I agree, the Bush Admin has done a very poor job of meeting the imaginary goals that you think they have.

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I'm sure I'm wasting my breath here, but you must be aware that the neoconservatives that comprise the bulk of Bush's inner circle regarded Iraq as the crown jewel of an ideological mission to bring democracy to Islam (along with the adjunct military goal of establishing huge superbases in the heart of the ME). To what degree control of the oil reserves factored into the equation, I don't know--I'm sure it was a big factor. Claiming that the whole enterprise was about profiteering, however, is simplistic and manifestly untrue.

[Vagos]

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its all just Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich

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Gold.

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military goal of establishing huge superbases in the heart of the ME -- mission accomplished. Also they are in a country that has continued to fragment and become more chaotic, no worries about a coordinated massive rejection from the host.