Theory- Merging Your Range

[catcher193]

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Yaya, some people might find it interesting I'm sure, no news to me. I also still hate the term "valuebluffing", since you actually said yourself that betting in that particular spot, you assume your bet is going to be ev+ in terms of getting called. The fact that ranges overlap each other is still of no consequence.

There is no such thing as valuebluffing, the concept is purely a result of people not having PERFECT information, which in turn leads to overlapping ranges. M'kay?

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pretty much a perfect response, I was going to say this but not as well so I'll QFT.

[willw9]

Linky to HSNL thread KRANTZ?

Also, I think this sums up the concept very well.

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when there's a nuts or air situation, and you can bet something like the nuts that's only slightly better than their best bluff catcher, that just makes you a whole new level of dangerous.

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[Zeestein]

When I bet the river with A8, I'm not trying to make a straight fold.

[kotkis]

So basically a valuebluff is either a thin valuebet or a thin bluff where your ranges slightly overlap with your opponent resulting in a situation where you sometimes fold out and sometimes get called by better. Why can't we just call these thin value bets and bluffs?

[KRANTZ]

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Linky to HSNL thread KRANTZ?

Also, I think this sums up the concept very well.

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when there's a nuts or air situation, and you can bet something like the nuts that's only slightly better than their best bluff catcher, that just makes you a whole new level of dangerous.

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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post10144378

[Zeestein]

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So basically a valuebluff is either a thin valuebet or a thin bluff where your ranges slightly overlap with your opponent resulting in a situation where you sometimes fold out and sometimes get called by better. Why can't we just call these thin value bets and bluffs?

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This thread is just a zero sum definitional battle to me. These bets by their nature are super thin such to be close to 0 EV, if these bets become +EV when called then they're straight v-bets.

The A8 is a horrible example, it's a fat vbet to me.

[prinsrob]

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So, if the middle of your range is of moderate showdown value on the river (F-O, let's say), and you have the right image, your opponent is on the right level, etc., then you should probably go ahead and bet F 90% of the time, G 80%, H 70%, etc. as the strength of your hand decreases.

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Why not just bet your best hands in that range 100% of the time and worse hands less (so that you bet as often when you add those percentages). (If you play those hands the same way to the river.)

[Eagles]

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betting 180 there with A8 is pretty bad anyways.

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Ummm This is like the easiest value bet in the world.


ae,
I understand what you are saying but you are using bad examples.
For example if I shoved the flop with 8h9h on a Th Jh Qh and villain called with Ah Kh it was still a value bet even though I got called by a better hand.

[aejones]

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betting 180 there with A8 is pretty bad anyways.

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Ummm This is like the easiest value bet in the world.


ae,
I understand what you are saying but you are using bad examples.
For example if I shoved the flop with 8h9h on a Th Jh Qh and villain called with Ah Kh it was still a value bet even though I got called by a better hand.

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Yea but there you think you're ahead, I'm talking about spots where you're just not sure, but you bet to maximize value against a worse hand- even if it means giving value away to a better one.

But obviously you're right too, I can't get good [censored] examples I'm just trying to use hands that I've played the last few days which are barely applicable.

[g-p]

a bet can't be for both. its just really thin on a particular side (bluff or value), and since you dont have enough info you aren't sure what it is.

like someone else said in hsnl, there is no bet so 'magical' that worst hands call and better fold