(60) OMG fold kk pf? - Page 3

TwistedEcho · #21 04-28-2007, 03:16 PM

Ranges seem too tight

utg probably opening like TT+ AK+ maybe AQo and probably AQs
utg+2 probably has like QQ+ AK

I mean throw another good player pushing before the action gets to you and then fold kings, but just from this i don't think you can.

Austiger · #22 04-28-2007, 05:51 PM

I think I would call. If you 4-bet, you're probably gonna fold out QQ/AK. The ranges mentioned here are way too tight. Of course some good players are going to raise from EP with hands other than QQ+/AK.

Pudge714 · #23 04-28-2007, 06:07 PM

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I'd re-raise w/ JJ,QQ,AK against good players because that way I find out what they have and am not going to go broke on an undercard flop w/ QQ or JJ, so I would push in this spot.

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Your logic here is awful. The only reason to 3-bet JJ,QQ,AK here is so your threebetting range is wider and guys will pay you off more with AA and KK.Call and controlling the pot in position is much better.

fluorescenthippo · #24 04-28-2007, 06:42 PM

space post their names n00b!

spacegravy · #25 04-28-2007, 07:25 PM

I'll try to go through my tourney manager later and find the HH but I can't believe what some of you guys are saying.

I don't think a good player at the 60's would 3-bet another good players utg raise with ak. I think the majority of good players flat call with qq as well and even if his reraising range is qq+ he's not going to call me with qq so at best im risking my tournament life to win a small pot.

AnthonyV · #26 04-28-2007, 08:45 PM

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ive never folded KK preflop im my life, i wouldn't start here.

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Yup. Push please.

You WILL get calls from QQ and AK. People are not good at this game.

fluorescenthippo · #27 04-28-2007, 08:53 PM

i can see a fold here against certain regs. it doenst help that they are utg and utg1

AMT · #28 04-28-2007, 10:14 PM

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i can see a fold here against certain regs. it doenst help that they are utg and utg1

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generally dont get into the habit of folding here, and yes with reads its ok. you have KK and i agree that ranges are too tight.

Insty · #29 04-28-2007, 11:56 PM

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I don't think a good player at the 60's would 3-bet another good players utg raise with ak. I think the majority of good players flat call with qq as well and even if his reraising range is qq+ he's not going to call me with qq so at best im risking my tournament life to win a small pot.

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I do not think this is correct. This may not be what YOU would do. But there are plenty of people that would. I don't think you are going to be up against AA anyhere near enough of the time to make this a -ev shove.

In summary:
This is a +ev shove
Don't fold KK.

fluorescenthippo · #30 04-29-2007, 12:41 AM

its a fold the more i think as long as they are the better regs at the 60s. think about it. they are folding everything but KK+ to your push. KK isnt likely. you win small pots when they both have JJ, AK, QQ or whatever. you get stacked when they have AA 81% of the time. obv AA is part of their range at least 20% of the time and dont forget the 4 people to act or whatever.