*The Official Anarcho-Capitalism Debate and Discussion Thread. 4/27/07

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Just a derail, do you identify with the circle A?

[Kaj]

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Funny, when I wrote America and you read USA. Not that it matters.

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So your claim is that PATENTS and not European immigration were responsible for transforming Native American pre-USA society into today's hi-tech society?

That is a hilarious attempt at trying to cover your ass for your stupid picture post.

[hmkpoker]

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hmk posted in another thread about how the "first step" is a return to the gold standard. Personally, I don't see what's so great about it. Gold has very little intrinsic value compared to its perceived value. Plus, Gold is subject to inflation/deflation just like fiat currency.

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I'm also interested in hearing HMK or anyone expand upon the elimination of fiat currency as being the best first step to a market anarchist society.

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If you want to break down government policy into "economic" and "social" issues, I would say that the "social" issues borderline on irrelevent compared with the former. Cut the economic tyranny, and you have just cut off the government's ability to fund social tyranny; in other words, cut their funding and they simply can't do anything bad.

As it stands, monetary expansion is the primary method of funding the government. Notice how Bush has blown more money than a drunken Paris Hilton with daddy's credit card, yet hasn't raised taxes? Where do you think the money came from? As it stands, the population is doped into thinking that the gold standard created te great depression and that central banks are necessary to prevent economic chaos. They do not understand how or even that this form of funding (which doesn't become apparent until well after it has taken place, unlike taxes which must gouge you before they are spent) actually takes place. Most people really don't get the fact that the Fed is allowed to and does print money out of thin air. Shift to a gold standard and the government has to risk a taxpayer rebellion every time they decide to go through with ridiculous goverment projects.

What good is addressing the War on Drugs or the prison systems or military reform if you're not going to stop the government from having the ability to implement them?

Gold is also a huge boon economically. It is incredibly close to the perfect form of money. It doesn't tarnish, it is very scarce and therefore portable, it has very few consumable purposes that would lead to its destruction, and rarely is it ever being found in nature. Civilization couldn't have been built as fast as it was without it. Fiat money creates economic catastrophes like inflation and irrational real estate explosions.

[nietzreznor]

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If you want to break down government policy into "economic" and "social" issues, I would say that the "social" issues borderline on irrelevent compared with the former. Cut the economic tyranny, and you have just cut off the government's ability to fund social tyranny; in other words, cut their funding and they simply can't do anything bad.

As it stands, monetary expansion is the primary method of funding the government. Notice how Bush has blown more money than a drunken Paris Hilton with daddy's credit card, yet hasn't raised taxes? Where do you think the money came from? As it stands, the population is doped into thinking that the gold standard created te great depression and that central banks are necessary to prevent economic chaos. They do not understand how or even that this form of funding (which doesn't become apparent until well after it has taken place, unlike taxes which must gouge you before they are spent) actually takes place. Most people really don't get the fact that the Fed is allowed to and does print money out of thin air. Shift to a gold standard and the government has to risk a taxpayer rebellion every time they decide to go through with ridiculous goverment projects.

What good is addressing the War on Drugs or the prison systems or military reform if you're not going to stop the government from having the ability to implement them?

Gold is also a huge boon economically. It is incredibly close to the perfect form of money. It doesn't tarnish, it is very scarce and therefore portable, it has very few consumable purposes that would lead to its destruction, and rarely is it ever being found in nature. Civilization couldn't have been built as fast as it was without it. Fiat money creates economic catastrophes like inflation and irrational real estate explosions.

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good post

[tolbiny]

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Great Britain was considered the world leader in technology. Great Britain already had a patent system, but the British government failed to really enforce their laws.

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So what you are saying is that even without enforced patents innovation still existed? Hmmmmm. Interesting.

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Because the patent system made the conditions for inventions better in America than in Great Britain

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You mean people respond to incentives? Hmmmmmm.

[Turkish Mickey]

AC to me seems a bit like communism, great in theory, terrible in practice. I have trouble imagining a situation where AC wouldn't turn into warlordism very quickly, as seems to happen everytime no strong central government exists in a region.

[Kaj]

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AC to me seems a bit like communism, great in theory, terrible in practice. I have trouble imagining a situation where AC wouldn't turn into warlordism very quickly, as seems to happen everytime no strong central government exists in a region.

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I tend to agree with this in a large way. My problem with ACism is that a precondition seems to be a society which respects individual rights enough to avoid the drift towards warlordism. However, if there is that much respect for individual rights present, than a minarchist government with very limited powers should also be feasible and better suited to protect those at the very bottom of society. And, IMO, would be closer to an ideal state for civilized mankind.

[ianlippert]

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AC to me seems a bit like communism, great in theory, terrible in practice. I have trouble imagining a situation where AC wouldn't turn into warlordism very quickly, as seems to happen everytime no strong central government exists in a region.


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If you have a hard time believing how AC would be feasible, just imagine the federal government was abandoned. You would then have 52 states competing for tax payers money, and I believe this competition would ameliorate much of the negative effects of democratic states. The major problem with governments is that they have a monopoly over territory and the people that live within them. They can basically do what they want because the costs of leaving are so high.

[Kaj]

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AC to me seems a bit like communism, great in theory, terrible in practice. I have trouble imagining a situation where AC wouldn't turn into warlordism very quickly, as seems to happen everytime no strong central government exists in a region.


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If you have a hard time believing how AC would be feasible, just imagine the federal government was abandoned. You would then have 52 states competing for tax payers money, and I believe this competition would ameliorate much of the negative effects of democratic states. The major problem with governments is that they have a monopoly over territory and the people that live within them. They can basically do what they want because the costs of leaving are so high.

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Very true. I'm considering NH after a job change just for the state/local govts there ... too bad I can't cast off the fed govt's intrusions as well.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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If you have a hard time believing how AC would be feasible, just imagine the federal government was abandoned. You would then have 52 states competing for tax payers money.

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This is basically the situation in the current European Union. Tax regimes etc. aren't standardized and people have the right to move to whatever country they want (except in Eastern EU, but they will soon have as well).