Brag: Kobe single handedly beats the Suns

[Semtex]

The reason they won is the exact opposite of what you are saying

[Case Closed]

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The only stat Kobe will ever beat MJ in is number of teenage girls raped.

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0=0?

[vhawk01]

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The only stat Kobe will ever beat MJ in is number of teenage girls raped.

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0=0?

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0>0 LDO.

[chiznadAZ]

meh, lakers are tough at home in the playoffs,doesn't mean anything. Suns will win next two.

[thepizzlefosho]

yeah you're right the rest of his team scored 50 points so he really didn't have a big impact. He didn't pretty much take and make every important shot in the 4th quarter, and he isn't the only great scorer that the Lakers have.

Yeah it was really their great teamwork and offensive execution that won the day.

[Mondogarage]

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Variance: When will people start seriously considering that he is better than Jordan?

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When he wins six titles, and at least three of them without Shaq. Jordan never ever ever had Shaq. He had Gil Hodges, aging Bill Cartwright, Paxson, a bunch of scrubs, and that guy Pippen, who was pretty decent, but a big zero without Jordan.

If the Lakers win this year, that would be a start, but it's not happening, even if they get past the Suns. Kobe is every bit the scorer Jordan was, but Jordan was a far better defender, leader, and all around player. Kobe's much more an equal to, say, George Gervin, and Dominique, very good players both, but not multi-dimensional enough to be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan.

Lebron...that may turn out to be a different story.

[Huh?]

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yeah you're right the rest of his team scored 50 points so he really didn't have a big impact. He didn't pretty much take and make every important shot in the 4th quarter, and he isn't the only great scorer that the Lakers have.

Yeah it was really their great teamwork and offensive execution that won the day.

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Kwame Brown is the reason the Lakers won that game.

[Mondogarage]

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name a great guy who covered jordan?

bowen, raja bell, shawn marion, dwayne wade, Tayshaun Prince, Larry Hughes, ray allen, etc have all covered Kobe. The best two defenders to cover MJ were Joe Dumars (pretty good i'll give you that) and John Starks (john starks....get serious!!!). The NBA may not have the early-mid 90s Knicks (granted a defensive minded team), but they have several teams that do play solid defense (Pistons, Mavericks, Spurs, Chicago) as well as the fact that the double team and zone rules have been greatly relaxed.

I'm not saying that Kobe is definitely better. I'm just saying if you put him in Jordan's era or Jordan in this era I think you would find it much much more difficult to determine who is better. Maybe this argument doesn't hold up until Kobe wins a championship without Shaq, but I think that will happen and will be more significant considering the competition in the league now is considerably better than when Jordan was beating up on the Utah Jazz and the Sonics in those championship years.

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How about Gary Payton? How about Dennis Johnson? How about Larry Bird? You give Joe Dumars some credit, but he was, frankly, one of the best defenders ever.

I think your argument is seriously facing the fallacy of recency here, in that you seem to not have much appreciation for who was actually in the NBA from the early 80s through the mid 90s.

Jordan's teammates, collectively, were certainly no better than Kobe's in the post-Shaq era, and arguably, Jordan had less to work with than Kobe did when Shaq was a Laker. And, as you say, more teams lay back defensively now with zones, which, for someone who is the badass scorer Kobe is, this is a dream come true.

Kobe can take over a game. Jordan took over a league.

If Kobe can win 3-4 titles with the lineup he has *now*, which is comparable to the lineups Jordan won titles with, then I think you have a very good case. Heck, they have the same coach, running the same system. Frankly, I don't see Kobe winning any more titles, but I can accept being wrong.

[doubLe a tom]

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yeah you're right the rest of his team scored 50 points so he really didn't have a big impact. He didn't pretty much take and make every important shot in the 4th quarter, and he isn't the only great scorer that the Lakers have.

Yeah it was really their great teamwork and offensive execution that won the day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kwame Brown is the reason the Lakers won that game.

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I think anybody who knows anything about basketball would notice this. Lamar Odom also had a huge game, with like 18pts, 16rebs. Kobe can score 45pts every night if he wants, but if the people around him arent contributing, they arent going to win.

When these guys get opportunities and step, it also opens things up for Kobe, making it easier for him to get decent looks. The whole Laker team played GREAT in the last 3 quarters.

And as far as saying Kobe is as good or better than Jordan, lol, he has a long way to go.

[thepizzlefosho]

you guys make good points but I still stand by the fact that that NBA especially for Jordan's final three titles was a much much much weaker league.

Put it this way. I dont see the 4-6 title Bulls teams winning the Championship any of the last 8 years.

Also Larry Bird was pretty much done during Jordan's prime, Gary Peyton was like a 6-2 point guard who really didn't have the size or strength to stay with Jordan. Dennis Johnson was good, but we've now come up with two guys that had a chance to defend Jordan, and I gave a list of at least 6 or 7 really tough defenders in the current NBA. I'm sure I could come up with more guys (didn't mention Lebron, Luol Deng, or other guys that have the size and athleticism to stay with jordan).

Don't get me wrong if I had to pick one guy I would probably still default to Jordan. But you can't ignore that Kobe now has all of the skills, all of the athleticism, and has a chance to make a really solid case if he continues to play this way for the rest of his career.

and while you can argue that the other Lakers were integral to their victory last night, you can say the same thing about Pippen, Horace Grant, the 3 rotating centers the Bulls used, Rodman, Paxson, Kerr, etc that had to have productive games for the bulls during their various title runs to win games.

I'm really just trying to focus on the individual player, and I think you can make a case that Kobe is as good as Jordan. In a few years I think we are going to be arguing whether Lebron is better than both of them.