On B&M and the strategy forums

[LasVegasMichael]

Sure they can be "found" there, but they also need to be weeded out. Aside from that, they are often ignored and/or critiqued in a bad way by micro stakes Stars player instead of a B&M player, since it is basically an internet strategy forum, not a general strat forum.

True, in the high stakes realm, the strategy and analysis are much more similar, but in the SS and MS, they are truly different on many levels, and having its own forums makes sense!

Much more sense then a Gym or American Idol forum anyway.

Think about it. This is the most premier poker forum in existance, yet we have an AMERICAN IDOL forum and don't have seperate online and live POKER strategy forums?

WTF??????

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Think about it. This is the most premier poker forum in existance, yet we have an AMERICAN IDOL forum and don't have seperate online and live POKER strategy forums?

WTF??????

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I play online as well as live equally, and have for a long time. I say "WTF" when people think live poker is a different game than online poker. Strategy is the same... the only difference is table textures and the easier recall of player habits in B&M games- but thats OK because these are two skills that need to be learned at the same time.

For the most part the full ring limit forums are almost totally live play now, the uNL (micro) forum is welcoming lots of live play up to 5/5 blinds as well because the games play similar to the online micro limits. But this will all be discussed soon in detail once an approach is agreed upon with the other mods. You guys have spoken loudly, and we are discussing ways to make things more "B&M friendly" in the strat forums.

[ijustliketoplay]

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Much more sense then a Gym or American Idol forum anyway.


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[LasVegasMichael]

<u>Requiring</u> "LIVE" in the title would be a start. I know that most already do this, but it is not a requirement.

However, it does not solve the issue at hand, with regard to the internet players already being there, and heavily critiquing the live players posts with an internet mentality.

I will take your word that the full ring LHE forum is mainly B&amp;M, and that is great, however what is the most commonly spread game in most poker rooms in Vegas? 1/2NL and 2/5NL, and those games are similar in blinds to the internet forums, and have different strategies (this is a point I know we disagree on).

The raise amounts, max buy ins, players reads, and a multitude of other things are simply different for online vs. live.

Finally, how in the world can you expect to make things "more friendly"? Why are there not seperate forums already? Are the mods trying to limit the number of forums? That is a legitmate concern, and I understand that. However, why is am American Idol forum more needed then a B&amp;M strat forum?

If your answer is: Because the strategies are the same, then I will ask you this:

I just sat down at a 1/3NL table and am in MP with $500 (the max buy in). The average stack is $350 with the button having 1K. There is a straddle to $6 by a player with a very disheveld stack of chips and an almost empty beer bottle in his hand. There is no postng requirement. There has been a standard raise to $20 from UTG, and is has been called by three players in front of me. The button has announced that he will call any raise made in front of him, and has chips in his hand. I have AQos. What is my play?

Online players would have a completely different opinion then live players in the above scenario. Do you see why? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ICallHimGamblor]

I don't see what the big deal is... the forum owner goes to the admin screen and clicks "add new forum" and gives it a title. Hit 'submit' and go.

Doesn't seem really worthy of deep debate. It's not like deciding to switch bb software in order to destroy board performance [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Grunch]

SSNL isn't focused on online play by policy. Almost all hands posted are online hands, but that's only because live players don't post there.

I speak for myself, but I suspect that many would agree with me when I say that I would welcome a big influx of live posters to the SSNL forum. I play a lot online, but I also play live whenever I can. Live &amp; online strategies can differ at times, but not because the game is live or online. It's because of the opponents (and thier tendancies &amp; skillsets) that a format tends to attract. But even if live games tend to attract a certian type of player, that doesn't meant the same type of player doesn't play online. Both live players and online players would benefit from learning how to approach situations which are outside the norm for thier format.

The 2p2 strat forums are not warm-fuzzy places. The advice there can be delivered harshly and bluntly. This isn't necesarrily a bad thing, if it is moderated by the forum's leaders (which includes those in green &amp; some in blue). The harshness of the strat forums has the effect of shutting out posters who are not willing to contribute to the forums, but only want to take from the forums. The forums can't survive unless the members all contribute what they can. And let's face it -- poker isn't a warm-fuzzy game. You're going to need thick skin if you're going to succeed. The overall attitude will ebb &amp; flow in medium-term cycles like you might expect in a dynamic community. But in the long run, the goal never changes. We all want to get better at poker. If you share that goal, you are welcome in SSNL.

If you want to get better at poker, come to SSNL and give it a chance. Your contributions will be encouraged by the forum's elders, and what you gain from SSNL will be directly proportional to what you're willing to give to it.

[Grunch]

LVM,

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I just sat down at a 1/3NL table and am in MP with $500 (the max buy in). The average stack is $350 with the button having 1K. There is a straddle to $6 by a player with a very disheveld stack of chips and an almost empty beer bottle in his hand. There is no postng requirement. There has been a standard raise to $20 from UTG, and is has been called by three players in front of me. The button has announced that he will call any raise made in front of him, and has chips in his hand. I have AQos. What is my play?

Online players would have a completely different opinion then live players in the above scenario. Do you see why?

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I do see why. It's because the situation you describe doesn't occur as often online as it does live. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the strategies, and in fact I personally find this hand pretty interesting. If I saw this thread in SSNL, I'd be interested.

BTW, I'd fold quickly. What would you do?

[Frond]

B&amp;M was one of the first forums on 2+2 that got me hooked on this place. When I first started playing live LHE last year and posted a few hands on the SSHE forum I got a bit out of sorts. "Welcome to the forums" was nice to hear but "I hate your PF play" and "your turn play stinks" wasn't cool to a newb poster and player. NOt much tavt used there at all at times. I tried to learn from all the replies and found out which posters I could really learn from and which ones were just full of themselves. I still post there most of the time because I mostly play SSHE Live and there are a lot of people there who have way moe knowledge than I do and I respect their advice. The B&amp;M forum always has more interesting posts and more of a community feel to it so I always read here everyday.

[Rottersod]

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There is a tremendous demographic difference between people that play B&amp;M and people that play primarly online.

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This is extraordinarily true.

I mod a forum on another site that is strictly about B&amp;M poker rooms. The environment there is a complete 180 simply because it is 99% B&amp;M players versus online players.

There is a maturity in the 2+2 B&amp;M forum that is not found in any other forum at 2+2, which is why this is really the only 2+2 forum I post in.

If a B&amp;M Strat forum were added, though, I would definitely spend time there as well.

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This is one time where I don't mind piling on with a mindless "Me too!" post. A B&amp;M strat forum would instantly become my favorite forum.

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guys - before the pile gets bigger I can tell you upfront that a B&amp;M strat forum isn't going to happen at this time. The mods are all talking about this thread because your comments are very interesting, but a B&amp;M strat forum its not a favorite idea at this point. Live hands are designed to be integrated in the existing strategy forums with online hands, and can commonly be found there. More on this soon.

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I agree. I don't think a B&amp;M strat forum will be interesting enough for most of us here. There are so many variables that take place live that can't be put into words easily. When you play online you can immediately switch to 2+2 and post an interesting hand and then maybe use that advice right then. Many of us that play live do so once or twice a week and we don't keep detailed notes at the table (and are not going to start) so our strat posts will be meaningless. Over time the posts will become repetitive and basic. How many times do we want to read a post about when to push with AA in early position? Or when to raise PF with 66-99?

[Rottersod]

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I play online as well as live equally, and have for a long time. I say "WTF" when people think live poker is a different game than online poker. Strategy is the same... the only difference is table textures and the easier recall of player habits in B&amp;M games- but thats OK because these are two skills that need to be learned at the same time.

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I disagree. The good online players on 2+2 - the ones whose advice we'd want to get - are playing more than 1 table at a time and making their money by playing more to the odds and by being aggressive. This way they can maximize their profits by the odds getting closer to the even point since they play many thousands more hands than we could ever hope to and they can push weaker players off their hands by their aggressiveness. Online players also have the benefit of being able to switch tables as their table makup changes. Even at the largest card rooms it is not easy to get a table change over and over and we are limited by the amounts we can bring to another table.

The other thing that gives good online players a big edge is the use of poker stats and especially heads up type displays. It's hard for us live players to truly understand the kind of systems these players have at their homes but we have nothing like this in the B&amp;M world.

If I was 20 years old again I'd definitely be playing online like this.