Showdown Scenario where bluffer does not want to show

[PantsOnFire]

Step 1: Collect the pot.

Step 2: Show your hand unless you have a very good reason not to.

(For me, it might be that I had the nuts since the flop and strung him along and got him to bluff into me. I obviously played him like a fiddle and don't want to change that scenario. In such a case, I would muck and lie saying I had top pair or something.)

(Another case might be if the game was for higher stakes and the players were all very good. I would humbly explain that I need all the edges I can get against the good players in this game.)

As a final note, at a low stakes 1/2 NL cash game I would probably always show just to keep the game light and fun. In a tournament, I might be a lot more reluctant to show at all, since I do change gears a lot and don't want players to know what mode I am in.

[Vehn]

wtf? if a guy bets and you call and he indicates you caught him bluffing and doesn't want to show his hand but wants to see yours (i.e. "good call" and he doesn't muck) he can suck my dick. Never show first. IANAN.

[PokerEveryDay]

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He doesn't want to show his dick but wants to see yours (i.e. "good call" and he doesn't muck) he can suck my dick. Never show first. IANAN.

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Nice, I just made myself laugh.

[Sluss]

Normally I just flip over my cards. If the other guy has nothing, what do I care.

I was once sitting in the 1 seat at the Taj in a hand with a guy who had a real obvious tell when he didn't like a card. An ace came on the turn which made him real unhappy. I bet the turn and the river hoping to get him to fold. He agonized for a minute, called and quickly rolled over Kings. I tossed my KQ deep into the muck (being that it was right next to me). He started asking to see my cards. The dealer made it clear that if I had him beat the pot would be pushed to me. He agreed. Then she flipped over two cards, my King and a nine that was not mine. All I could think of for the next few hands was how I would have handled it if she turned over an Ace.

[Paul Levy]

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I disagree if you just sat down into the game and you don't know the player you get an idea of the range of hands he plays. What if he raised preflop and he turns over something like 2-4 S (I've seen it) that is valuable.

I say "I paid to see that hand, I called please show it". In Montana any hand that goes to the River ANY player may request to see.

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I concur - unless you know villain inside out, it's very valuable information. Same rule goes at the Vic in London, I once managed to piss off real good one of the many regular laggrotards by asking to see his hand.

[TMTTR]

A room I regularly play in recently started requiring the winning hand at showdown to be revealed. This rule really ends a lot of this mess. If the bluffer doesn't want to show, he can muck (or not muck) -- if the caller wants to win the pot, he has to show his hand at some point so he might as well show it right away and let the game move on.

[daveT]

I don't know what the big deal is about showing/ not showing your hand, especially when you play lower, and even mid-limts. If you are that afraid your opposition will get a solid line on your game, the you are giving your opponents way too much credit.

But this situation is the worse. There is nothing to gain by forcing someone to show their bluff. Wow, so this player is really capable of playing 73 sooted out of the big blind and bluff at the river? Big deal, the guy might bluff too much.

I can't see what you any one is gaining by learning that our opponent is capable of bluffing with AK on a seemingly dry board, or what we are giving away when we call with our pocket tens in this scenario.

Deception is highly over-rated, but don't tell anyone else that.

[Diana Ross Fan]

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I can't see what you any one is gaining by learning that our opponent is capable of bluffing with AK on a seemingly dry board, or what we are giving away when we call with our pocket tens in this scenario.

Deception is highly over-rated, but don't tell anyone else that.

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Good point. In small stakes games I like it when they make hopeless bluffs and wouldn't want them to feel bad about it.

[Mr Rick]

In theory I like to see the cards I paid to see. But in practice, if a guy says I've got an Ace without showing I will almost always table the winning hand without seeing the other card - because I don't want to tap on the aquarium. In retrospect there is one player who I do want to see what cards he is playing pre-flop, because this guy plays every time I am there, he is a pro, and generally he wins.

However, I make exceptions for guys whose heads I want to get inside. One guy, was an arrogant jerk and I made him table or muck his cards every time when the river was checked through and I was in position. I could see the steam rising as he was tabling hands.

At Foxwoods, some (maybe all) dealers do not make the winner show hands on the river if the other player mucks his bluff first. So if you don't want to show either, wait.

[slickss]

Just a question as I didn't see it get asked yet.

In the OP's scenario, what if villain says "I bluffed, you win" but doesn't release his hand - and you say something like "thanks", muck your hand, and start gathering chips.

What's the ruling here? Am I right to think that only the physical act of mucking cards actually counts, so villain gets the pot?