400nl AK flop decision.

[catcher193]

Call/Call

[ipokeder]

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I agree, 55 and 77 are very marginal calls and probably slightly -EV. Flat calling with aces here is burning money, but I don't think a lot of people recognize it, so that's definitely possible.

Flat calling with AK is kinda meh, but I can see a villain doing this as well.

Bottom line is that you are playing this hand hoping for a chop at best. Of course he has some insanely retarded bluff some small percentage of the time, but stacking off to chop is not winning poker.

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flatting with AA is burning money?

lol, anything but. it's so easy to stack an aggressive player if you get lucky w/ coldcalling aces. that is, UTG or UTG+1 raises, you coldcall with aces, some aggro player behind squeezes. you coldcall with your AA, c/c the flop repping a medium pair or something, c/c the turn when he shoves trying to rep your hand.

if he coldcalled AA in the first place he should either 1) coldcall again or 2) make a non-pot-committing reraise, like 140~

and no, a retard can show up with a whole lot more bluffs or worse hands than AK (KQ, KJ, KT, whatever he wants really) than 777/555

just shove it in and don't think about it. on these types of boards in RR'd pots, you should be considering AK w/ a pair as if it were a set.

[LearnedfromTV]

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villain calling with 77 is fine although very very marginal and i personally abhor it

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with AK calling sucks, that should be a shove

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AA calling is fine

AQ calling sucks

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Seriously? Standard is 4 bet shoving 8x the rr?

Personally I usually fold 77 and AQ, usually 4bet or fold AK, occasionally shove, occasionally call. And if I called w/ AA the first time, I'd often call with it the second also. And c-r the flop. C-c, C-c is fine too, kinda depends on the flop and opponent.

All of this assumes flat calling the first time, which I'd rarely do with AK/AQ/AA

[ipokeder]

shove = pot committing 4-bet, no real difference. since i also shove in other situations, i like to 4-bet shove there since you better represent a resteal and ofc AK has great equity there

[cheiro]

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I fold. This screams set. You are chopping at best. He's bluffing some of the time, but not enough to be profitable. He has to be bluffing here a lot.

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lollololool.. no way do I fold here.

I'd just shove flop, as you aren't getting too much value from JJ/QQ/TT in later streets anyway. a weaker king calls, fd calls. it's very possible he has air, but i don't think he'd push the turn/riv then if you call.

PF reraise sucks.

[eggegg]

Results, for those who care:

I shoved the flop, he called with 68hh.

I was very suprised by the call preflop from villain, but it shows like people have said, I should have reraised more pre to 70ish.

I don't think the shove was too bad on the flop though.

Turn brought a heart.

[Riina]

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I don't think the shove was too bad on the flop though.

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but still -EV? Can you elaborate some final thoughts on this hand, cuz im still torn. I have a range for villain on the one hand (not 6h8h though), giving me hardly something i can beat and a natural instinct that screams, im not ever gonna fold ak here opposing that very strongly.

tx,

[eggegg]

Sure thing. I'll try, though please remember I was posting the hand for advice because I was unsure myself, and am new to this game.

As he's flat calling twice in a row PF, I really find it hard for him to have KK/AA here, for starters. I think mid pocket pairs all the way up to JJ pooossssibly QQ is possible here.

The flop comes full of draws. I think 77 and 55 make up part of his range, but I also think AK makes up a massive part of his range, also AQh possibly, and possibly other SC that picked up a gutshot and FD.

He is very aggressive so could quite easily be making this raise with a draw.


Thoughts appreciated.

[minnesotasam]

Suited one-gappers are the new suited connectors.

[Riina]

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Sure thing. I'll try, though please remember I was posting the hand for advice because I was unsure myself, and am new to this game.

As he's flat calling twice in a row PF, I really find it hard for him to have KK/AA here, for starters. I think mid pocket pairs all the way up to JJ pooossssibly QQ is possible here.

The flop comes full of draws. I think 77 and 55 make up part of his range, but I also think AK makes up a massive part of his range, also AQh possibly, and possibly other SC that picked up a gutshot and FD.

He is very aggressive so could quite easily be making this raise with a draw.


Thoughts appreciated.

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Although some midpocketpairs can be put into his range given his preflop action, i think you can erase all of them but 77(6 possib.) (maybe 55(6)), when he checkraises the flop. I guess if he is holding any underpair, the K is his scarecard because of the obvious AK and he wouldn't get cute if he's half decent.

AK(9) of course is a possibility. Despite him having not 'shoved' or folded as people stated in the thread, lots of TAGs will make the mistake of coldcalling twice nonetheless, so it is certainly possible imo.

Aces is the big questionmark of course. I can see flatcalling twice be ok under certain circumstances. However, i do not know if you style of play 'fits' into that scenario.

The only reasonable drawing hand in this situation i consider AQh(1), everything else seems pretty optimistic.

According to this scenario, i guess a fold seems in order as opposed to a shove. I do not like a call-call, as i think villains bluffingfrequency is almost nonexistent on the turn, if it wasn't already on the flop. So you need to squeeze every juice out of the hands you are ahead of on the flop, if you're going to showdown anyway.


However, 2 factors borderline this hand a lot further:
-Your small pfrr might entice some opponents to play a lot more weaker holdings, wich could drastically paint a different picture in the analysis above
-Chaostheory: people do weird inexplainable stuff a certain amount of the time online. Always take that into account.

In realtime i think i would have shoved reluctantly, as i would have shot myself if i folded and would be shown a bluff. Furthermore, i dont always play the way i analyse. Trying to though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

edit: i forgot kings in his range. I would consider him moronic for not repopping preflop if that was his actual holding, but it remains possible nonetheless of course