Review: Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games by Stox/Zobags

[PokerHorse]

I remember a post along time ago about win rates in higher games that Sklansky posted. It was for B&M games, but I dont see why it should be any different online.

When I first posted regarding this book I had only read about a third. i said i felt it would help lower limit players. I feel less inclined too make that statement as I
believe that at levels 1-2/ -3-6 too many players just call down or just keep raising without regard to the board or whats already happened in the hand being played.
That being said, i think its a very good book.
good luck

[Piers]

The win rates appear to be used as a method to estimate hand values, as such all that is necessary is that they be representative of the books target readership (after reading the book). The place to brag about win rates would be the back cover.

[stoxtrader]

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The win rates appear to be used as a method to estimate hand values, as such all that is necessary is that they be representative of the books target readership (after reading the book). The place to brag about win rates would be the back cover.

[/ QUOTE ]

we basically made a choice not to do this.

[*TT*]

Stox - Hand #5. Please explain the flop peel, I don't get it. If you had the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] then it would make sense to me.

[Gildwulf]

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outstanding stuff. thanks.

my copy is on its way and I'm very much looking forward to it.

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[ThunderEagle]

I'm about half way through. While I'm a low limit player, I've struggled with games that were not insanely loose.

If anything this seems to have ratched up the agression factor, and looks to be a bit more LAGish play vs. the TAG play that seems to most often be discussed. I'm glad to have some space dedicated to Blind Defense and Blind vs. Blind wars, especially for the 6 max games that dominate today.

While this may be targeted to higher games, I think it gives some good insight into adjusting for conditions.

[6471849653]

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Open fold 22 in the small blind page 69. Open raise 22 in button and cut off page 12. Don’t know, maybe they are correct.


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It's about how cheaply you can get to the river against the BB when your probably ahead. I can think of a few lines against some BB players that would make 22 hard to play out of position.

I'm not saying Stox is right here but there is food for thought in this advice.


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I don't think I have ever seen a(n average) reason to open-raise 22 from one of the button. The same goes for not playing 22 when opening on the small blind. The reasons I have looked into are at least real life stats (including bad players) from Pokerroom, simulations, reasoning (including pot and implied odds, position, opponent type, and that I don't too much believe in reasoning) and showdown poker (22 is at the level of K2 [that one could fold in a real life game without position], also scoring about 50%, as showdown poker, but according to stats and simulations, in a real life game or not, 22 is the better hand).

[7n7]

Has anybody else out there put this back down for a little while? I started reading it and then realized that until I get a little more familiar with short-handed limit HE, it would be wiser to shelve this book for a little while.

I know there are some concepts that could certainly help at my level, however, I know that one of my "learning leaks" is that I initially seem to try and implement author's advice in the wrong situations. I'm working on it, but old habits die hard.

[Victor]

im really surprised about folding 22 in the sb.

im looking forward to this book as stats fascinate me.

malorum, i dont see why mixing limits should matter unless you are concerned with how much actual money the player is making. otherwise, its still a great indicator of if the player is "beating the game"

[Piers]

They also recommends open raising 22 in the small blind page 90, Consistent with my comment about inconsistent advice.

The page 69 folding 22 advice is really quoting their empirical evidence, the page 90 raising advice appears to be them guessing.