speaking in tongues question for christians

[Subfallen]

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Well, Christians believe that it effects the spirit - so what we see it as a spiritual experience - you may refer to it as purely emotional or a psychological one - But it definitely does have an impact.

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There would be some pretty easy ways to differentiate speaking in tongues from other related psychological phenomena. For example, if you were able to speak in tongues while listening to loud, nonrhythmic music, this would be a strong indication that speaking in tongues is a very unique experience. (Generally, experiences of virtual agency occur in heavily rhythmic environments.)

[Sephus]

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i don't really know what i'm hoping for here because i have a feeling that many responses will frustrate me.

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it seems like vhawk was either the only person who "got" the point of my post or the only one who was interested in it.

it was probably my fault.

i'm not really all that interested in speaking in tongues, i'm interested in the ways christians integrate various beliefs.

[Sephus]

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My own language has a vocabulary / syntax
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how do you know?

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In the sense that there are different 'words' and patterns of speech.

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if you don't know what anything means, how do you know that different sound patterns represent words and groups of words represent sentences? what are these "patterns" that you've noticed?

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Well, Christians believe that it effects the spirit - so what we see it as a spiritual experience - you may refer to it as purely emotional or a psychological one - But it definitely does have an impact.

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what i'm trying to ask is, how can you distinguish this "impact" from the impact that you imagine believing you're speaking in tongues could have?

as i've said a few times before, when i said "faking it" i didn't intend to mean that they were insincere, i understand how it looked that way.

[entertainme]

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i don't really know what i'm hoping for here because i have a feeling that many responses will frustrate me.

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it seems like vhawk was either the only person who "got" the point of my post or the only one who was interested in it.

it was probably my fault.

i'm not really all that interested in speaking in tongues, i'm interested in the ways christians integrate various beliefs.

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You specifically want to talk about faking it. OK. I get it.

Does it happen? I haven't experienced it personally but because christians are subject to the same human nature and same faults we all have, then you have to presume it does happen.

- You have churches that believe the gifts have ceased or operate on a different level than during the time of christ.

- You have other churches that believe in the gifts but also insist on order in services

- You have churches that practice the gifts as a regular part of their services.

- Other churches consider speaking in tongues as the evidence that you have received the holy spirit.

JMHO but I think peer pressure would be more of a factor in the last two categories. I can understand how a sincere christian who believes in God could manifest this behavior themselves because it's what is *supposed* to happen.

Do some fake it knowing they are faking it? I imagine they do.

On the other hand keep in mind that there are people teaching Sunday school and pastors in the pulpit who don't believe in the God of the bible.

If you put anyone up on a pedestal, you will soon learn they are not God.

[godBoy]

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if you don't know what anything means, how do you know that different sound patterns represent words and groups of words represent sentences? what are these "patterns" that you've noticed?

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It doesn't sound like - 'la la la ti ti ya ya ya la la tit i yay ya. It is far more complex than that - A complexity that is mirrored in spoken language - the language itself is quite distinct from other languages though - and each persons is different.

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what i'm trying to ask is, how can you distinguish this "impact" from the impact that you imagine believing you're speaking in tongues could have?

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I suppose it's fair to say we believe what our senses perceive - your question can't really be answered.

[PairTheBoard]

I suspect that most who engage in this practice really feel that they are filled with the Holy Spirit and are prompted by the Spirit to make their utterances. Some probably believe their utterances are an unknown human language. I doubt they would be swayed from this opinion if confronted by an analysis claiming to show that to be unlikely. I think others take the view that the language is "spiritual" and understood by God in a mysterious way unlike the way we understand human language. It may be a case of, "it's not so much what you say as how you say it". In any case, I don't see it as any more puzzling than the Vatican continuing to insist that the bread and the wine of the Eucharist really does become the flesh and blood of Christ, according to the the mystical language they use to describe the miracle.

PairTheBoard

[Subfallen]

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It doesn't sound like - 'la la la ti ti ya ya ya la la tit i yay ya. It is far more complex than that - A complexity that is mirrored in spoken language - the language itself is quite distinct from other languages though - and each persons is different.


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Any reasonable metric of complexity measures non-randomness, not randomness. Thus I have no idea how you think you can intuit the "complexity" of a meaningless sequence of purported phonemes; much less equate that intuited value with the prodigious complexity of an actual language.

[godBoy]

Jeez you guys are too deep..

I don't know how to describe the language other than what I have provided(I don't have a background with phonemes..), it doesn't really matter to me.
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Any reasonable metric of complexity measures non-randomness, not randomness. Thus I have no idea how you think you can intuit the "complexity" of a meaningless sequence of purported phonemes;

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I can recognize strings of words that go together, and seem to know intuitively what comes next - if that makes sense. The words themselves are complex in the sense that they are using different sounds than those of language I am familiar with.

I'm not trying to justify anything here - just trying to answer questions of the curious as best I can.

[Insp. Clue!So?]

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Jeez you guys are too deep..

I don't know how to describe the language other than what I have provided(I don't have a background with phonemes..), it doesn't really matter to me.
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Any reasonable metric of complexity measures non-randomness, not randomness. Thus I have no idea how you think you can intuit the "complexity" of a meaningless sequence of purported phonemes;

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I can recognize strings of words that go together, and seem to know intuitively what comes next - if that makes sense. The words themselves are complex in the sense that they are using different sounds than those of language I am familiar with.

I'm not trying to justify anything here - just trying to answer questions of the curious as best I can.

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Once again I'm struck by how easily believers think such things are even plausible.

You mean the inventor of the Universe has to resort to bizarre secret codes to communicate in private languages, in which lesser beings express little other fealty apparently, to the exclusion of those around him? Why involve the tongue and the mouth at all?

And why further is this practice considered unsound if not heretic by most Christians, if such an all-powerful being felt it a necessary part of a sincere relationship with it?

Far more likely it is simply the result of powerful emotional urges and psychological states brought on by the need to believe.

Intellectual integrity means at its heart the willingness to question about the fundaments, something that never seems to occur to believers.

[godBoy]

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And why further is this practice considered unsound if not heretic by most Christians

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That's not right - it's a biblical practice.
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Intellectual integrity means at its heart the willingness to question about the fundaments, something that never seems to occur to believers.

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No, we(I at least) question it. It's just that I don't put God in a box, if God exists I should have no reason to be sure of what it should be / do - oh, and your hi-jacking..
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Far more likely it is simply the result of powerful emotional urges and psychological states brought on by the need to believe.

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I was never in any sort of state of powerful emotion when I first 'learned' the language. I was walking home from school - happy and talking with God.
It's possible you are right and there is emotional / psychological reasons for the phenomena.