Disaster WPT! Could Monday be the End of the World Poker Tour?? - Page 3

MicroBob · #21 03-31-2007, 08:56 PM

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I couldn't agree more what what Gary has said.

The best thing that WPT did in 2002 was to accept the offer from The Travel Channel, which was only in about 70 million U.S. TV households at the time, to be on The Travel Channel on Wednesday nights.

The symbiotic relationship between WPT and The Travel Channel allowed both to grow dramatically.

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Once they were on Travel Channel obviously it was good for WPT that the channel grew.
But before entering the deal with them they obviously could care less if Travel Channel succeeds on their own or not and I just don't see how this is relevant.

If they had gone to ESPN they would have probably done diddly to help that network grow significantly.
But if that move would have gotten them more viewers at the beginning and over the long-term then they wouldn't care if ESPN grew or went backwards.

It's nice that WPT was able to help Travel Channel grow. But helping the little channel grow bigger isn't a good reason to put your program on with them. You go where you'll do the best for YOUR program (whether or not it would have been better at ESPN nobody REALLY knows).

I don't follow the stuff too closely though so my opinion is more just a 'gut instinct' than anything else.

The WPT 'look' was pretty distinctive. Taking the 'Who Wants to be a Millionaire' type of lighting and set and adding the music and slick feel and putting it on a poker program.
The WPT was sure to be noticed for all the "OMG, he's betting a house!!" type of stuff that garnered it the attention in the first place.

Very possible I'm underestimating the impact of having it on a 'regular' night but I just don't think it's as big a deal as you guys do.
Especially given that the WPT would be on MORE OFTEN on ESPN through all the re-runs and that ESPN is a way bigger channel.

I look at the NHL as a somewhat similar example in reverse.
Not great viewership on ESPN.
But even less on 'versus'.
Yeah, the NHL has helped that little channel grow somewhat too I suspect.
But what do they care? Hockey is no longer on ESPN and it's a pretty major mistake by the league imo.

No biggie that I just don't see it the same way you guys do.
It's a very legitimate argument if you really think being on a regular night is still so important as to forego the larger network.
I disagreed with Lipscomb when I first read about this logic for turning down ESPN and I still disagree now.

olivert · #22 03-31-2007, 10:13 PM

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It's nice that WPT was able to help Travel Channel grow. But helping the little channel grow bigger isn't a good reason to put your program on with them. You go where you'll do the best for YOUR program (whether or not it would have been better at ESPN nobody REALLY knows).

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In business, just as in poker, you have to make the best decision possible with the available information.

Mr. Lipscomb wrote in one section of Mike Sexton's book WPT: Shuffle Up and Deal that he thought he made the best decision possible at the time by putting the WPT on The Travel Channel.

I happen to agree with that decision.

In 2002, there was no way Mr. Lipscomb could have forseen the NHL lockout taking place in 2004-2005, which caused ESPN and ESPN2 to re-air the WSOP in place of the NHL in 2004-2005, with the WSOP re-airs getting better ratings than the NHL did before the lockout.

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I look at the NHL as a somewhat similar example in reverse.
Not great viewership on ESPN.
But even less on 'versus'.
Yeah, the NHL has helped that little channel grow somewhat too I suspect.
But what do they care? Hockey is no longer on ESPN and it's a pretty major mistake by the league imo.

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I disagree with you here.

The NHL had no choice but to go with Versus (OLN) because ESPN, Inc. did NOT want to pay the NHL anything to stay on ESPN2 (and ESPN but only during the playoffs).

Even though the NHL has slipped way down the pecking order in the U.S. sports TV landscape (even below Mexican First Division soccer telecasts on the Spanish-language channels, which get better ratings than NHL week in and week out), the NHL is able to survive on a combination of Versus and NBC, especially after the NHL has lowered its cost structure considerably after the lockout.

The NHL knows that the NHL is no longer a "major" TV sports product in the U.S. That really does not matter much in the long run, as the NHL only needs to find a niche and operate within the cost constraints of that particular niche in order to be a viable business.

Not every business has to be big in order to be successful.

JoseGonzlez · #23 03-31-2007, 11:55 PM

oliver : what are the WPT's ratings like these days? is it still travel's highest rated program?

like someone else said the WPT will still exist even without coverage.

with all the satellites places like Foxwoods run it certainly would not be the end of big field high stakes pokering.

largely the WPT just took the tourney circuit that existed already and made it more organized.

gaboonviper · #24 04-01-2007, 01:00 PM

Well, today is April 1st. The WPT/Travel Channel deadline for season 6 is here. What do you think the outcome will be?

thedarknight · #25 04-01-2007, 01:52 PM

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...(And I still maintain this view even though I no longer have a Chinese-speaking client as of Friday March 30.)...

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SAY WHAAAA?

JJ Liu fired you?

SAY IT AIN'T SO

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it is clear the father's baby is oliver

Willy · #26 04-01-2007, 06:06 PM

I would think GSN is a strong possibility. They seem to have had success with HSP and may be looking for more. WPT fits in with the game show format better than many tournaments anyway.

unlucky4me · #27 04-02-2007, 06:16 PM

I'm pretty sure thats why they didn't go with ESPN, they woulnd't gurantee them a regular time slot.

idrinkcoors · #28 04-02-2007, 07:14 PM

"The WSOP Circuit is no longer televised (though pay subscription video webcasts are coming soon), while the TOC is now in indefinite hiatus."

Man, I didn't know that. Will the circuit events dry up then? I understand that they weren't exactly bursting at the seams with entrants. Didn't one circuit event have less than 200 entrants?

As far as the TOC, I sure hope they keep that. Each of the three final tables have been pretty interesting IMO.

Kevmath · #29 04-02-2007, 07:40 PM

Circuit Entrants for 2006-07:

Tahoe - 127
Grand Tunica (Oct.)- 197
Indiana - 169
Harrah's AC - 237
Grand Tunica (Jan.) - 377
Council Bluffs - 142
Rincon - 181
Caesars AC - 314

olivert · #30 04-02-2007, 07:48 PM

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I would think GSN is a strong possibility. They seem to have had success with HSP and may be looking for more. WPT fits in with the game show format better than many tournaments anyway.

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GSN just renewed High Stakes Poker for a 4th season.

Given that the ratings expectations on GSN are relatively low (HSP draws on the order of 300,000 households, or about 350,000 total viewers ages 2 and over), I don't believe GSN is paying all that much money for HSP (certainly not in the ballpark of the roughly $10 million a year Travel was paying for WPT Season 5.)

Still, a modest rights fee is better than no rights fee in this difficult market for TV poker in the U.S.

Poker is peaking in Europe right now, with Germany in particular firing on all cylinders. Spain, and possibly Poland, will be next. (Italy will have to wait due to the current laws in place, though Max Pescatori is trying to open that market.)