Wal-Mart

[AlexM]

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I am a little surprised you are on this side of the wal-mart fence.

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I'm very much anti-corporation. I just don't think the government is the solution so much as the enabler and even if government could stop corporations I wouldn't think the ends justified the means. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[almostbusto]

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some people also get angry at walmart for basically taking advantage of government policies. i would argue that its the government is messed up. walmart's goal is to create profits, you can't blame them for taking advantage of the governments backwards policies.

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Yes, you can. If the government makes it legal to murder people does that make it ok to go out and murder people? No, of course not. Furthermore, they actively manipulate government into making these policies. Getting the government to make the policies is a step well beyond simply abusing policies in place.

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dare i say, context ftw?

government offers walmart a sweetheart tax deal, you are legitmately suggesting that walmart should turn down the deal? do you expect people collecting social security beyond what they actually paid into the system to tear up their checks?

good luck with that mentality.

[Case Closed]

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I am a little surprised you are on this side of the wal-mart fence.

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I'm very much anti-corporation. I just don't think the government is the solution so much as the enabler and even if government could stop corporations I wouldn't think the ends justified the means. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Good to know. One of the very cool things about politics that we may have the same ends our preference of means to go about it are drastically different. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[AlexM]

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also you are wrong, even with the context. it is not a monopoly no matter how you slice it. think about it, how much do you think walmart can raise its prices after the other companies close for the night?

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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/monopoly

"exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices."

What you said fits the 2nd half, but what they have for night time shopping fits the 1st half. Either one makes it a monopoly.

[almostbusto]

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I'm very much anti-corporation. I just don't think the government is the solution so much as the enabler and even if government could stop corporations I wouldn't think the ends justified the means. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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what non corporation/non government entity do you suggest take over the majority of the production in the world?

do you think sole-proprietorships could produce a car or an airplane for example? because they necessarily can't in america today. think liability. i guess you would suggest massive legal reform as well, but i don't see how it could work.

[AJFenix]

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pro wal-mart guys,

I understand that these are the tactics they used to become who they are today. I understand that they are legal and other companies would do the same thing if they had the opportunity. I don't like these tactics, I don't want to shop at a place that uses those tactics. I don't think they are evil by any stretch of the imagination. They are much like all other faceless cooperations. As a consumer it is my preference the try and frequent local "mom and pop" establishments as much as I can.

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This is perfectly fine, and the rational side of the argument to preferring to shop at smaller stores.

I apologize if I didn't make it clear in my post, Wal-Mart is the only BIG place here, Nichol's Dollar Saver I can't really call big, although its medium sized I guess. I don't really even know a "mom and pop" shop around here, probably because Wal-Mart's presence, although before that I think Nichol's was the top dog around here.

Also, this is Oklahoma, I was just meaning that I am not originally from here, and I think I have a fairly impartial view on the subject.

[AlexM]

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some people also get angry at walmart for basically taking advantage of government policies. i would argue that its the government is messed up. walmart's goal is to create profits, you can't blame them for taking advantage of the governments backwards policies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you can. If the government makes it legal to murder people does that make it ok to go out and murder people? No, of course not. Furthermore, they actively manipulate government into making these policies. Getting the government to make the policies is a step well beyond simply abusing policies in place.

[/ QUOTE ]

dare i say, context ftw?

government offers walmart a sweetheart tax deal, you are legitmately suggesting that walmart should turn down the deal? do you expect people collecting social security beyond what they actually paid into the system to tear up their checks?

good luck with that mentality.

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It's different when "government offers" and when Wal-Mart "manipulates and bullies the government". Explaining that difference was the whole point of my post. To requote:

"Getting the government to make the policies is a step well beyond simply abusing policies in place."

A better analogy using your Social Security analogy would be for people collecting Social Security to lobby for increased payments after already having paid into the system.

[AlexM]

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I'm very much anti-corporation. I just don't think the government is the solution so much as the enabler and even if government could stop corporations I wouldn't think the ends justified the means. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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what non corporation/non government entity do you suggest take over the majority of the production in the world?

do you think sole-proprietorships could produce a car or an airplane for example? because they necessarily can't in america today. think liability. i guess you would suggest massive legal reform as well, but i don't see how it could work.

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My problem is with corporations, not with companies. I have no problems with large companies that are run without the aid of government.

[almostbusto]

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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/monopoly

"exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices."

What you said fits the 2nd half, but what they have for night time shopping fits the 1st half. Either one makes it a monopoly.

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Get an actual definition from an economics textbook. its not a real monopoly. a monopoly has pricing power by definition, and in the short/medium term can secure economic profits.some would include long term for it to be a true monopoly, many other contend no such firm could exist. it certainly couldn't exist in the long term in this case.


1. there are substitutes for shopping at 3AM at walmart in your town. it might mean going to the next town, it might mean waiting (incurring time costs) but they exist.

2. walmart doesn't have significant pricing power after the competing firms in your town close. it is not able to secure economic profits above what it otherwise can during the day.

3. there are no significant barriers to entering the market during that time. competing firms can and would enter the market if walmart in fact has monopoly power during that time.


seriously you are dead dead wrong. there is no two ways about it.

what you are saying is like saying "nike has a monopoly on clothing with the swoosh logo"... actually your argument is weaker in fact, since there are actual barriers to competing firms producing such clothing. however substitues exists from swoosh clothing, nike does not have a monopoly. it does not have monopoly power. using the word monopoly in that context dilutes the meaning of the word to the point where it is meaningless

[almostbusto]

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A better analogy using your Social Security analogy would be for people collecting Social Security to lobby for increased payments after already having paid into the system.

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There are many lobbying organizations that effectively try to do this. it sounds like you just dislike special interest groups. guess what, everyone hates special interest groups. except their own of course. I agree with you, its a big big problem (special interest groups general). however, to get mad at just one special interest group is silly. tons of major corporations, non-profits, lobbyist groups, and unions are doing the same thing.