Coaching WARNING

[pokersanjuan]

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sanjuan:

1. What was your bankroll before you payed snobank for coaching?

2. Clarify: The coaching was not bad the first hour, second hour was awful,

3. Clarify: ...and he was never available other then the two hours we did.

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A little over 4k.

The first half hour he told me things that I thought were valuable. We chatted through IM for one hour and that was how the coaching worked. For the rest of that session and our sessions after that it was literally "you need to read 2p2 and post there". And pep talk stuff like "do you think jordan had a coach? no he needed to put the work in himself which is waht you need to do".

Maybe his agg style didn't work for me...

He wasn't available as in I go to 3bet and the coaches are always availalbe on aim.

The ONLY time I talked to him was during our two hours sessions. Then he says he made all this time for me?? Where was this time???

[FishSticks]

What reputable services exist out there that you prepay for and can't get a partial refund on unused services? This just isn't good business on snowbank's part - but bad, unethical business isn't always illegal so it's tough cookies for OP.

OP - I doubt he advertised that he could get students to a 10PTBB/100 winrate at 1/2NL. If he mentioned that figure at all, it was probably him saying that was his OWN winrate (which is questionable). If he indicated he'd get you winning 10ptbb/100 at 1/2NL then that is just flatly ridiculous and false advertising. You also should have known better.

What about his coaching didn't you like? What did you like? It's not his fault you lost your bankroll, that's your own fault. My opinion is it would be fair to refund you half your remaining balance ($225).

[schwza]

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I guess basically it comes down to what you think is fair personally and what isnt

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You're right, that is what it should come down to. You seem to be confusing what's fair and what's in your best interests however. The agreement you made was to prepay X$ for sessions. You paid the money and the sessions have been made available to you. Your agreement is fulfilled. There was no stipulation that you could get a refund on unused sessions, and therefore no such stipulation exists. There is nothing unfair about you not recieving a refund for sessions you don't use.

That's not to say that refunding your money wouldn't be in both of your best interests. Yours because you get your money back, snobank's because negative word of mouth is 10 times more effective than positive word of mouth, and reputations are often impossible to repair once damaged.


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agreed.

i don't want to explain the physics of it, but you know the sound when you open a can of soda? that's the sound of buying a whole soda.

it'd be a very nice gesture if snowbank gave the money back, but this is the difference between buying x sessions and buying 1 at a time. don't act like you're entitled to a refund.

[thac]

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I had the roll for 200nl and was beating it at 1.7ptbb/100. I took snowbanks coaching and in 3 weeks lost everything. So I was expecting to improve and move up. He advertised a 10ptbb/100 winrate!

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ok, you might have some (shaky) ground to stand on in your OP but this is just ridiculous. It's not snowbank's fault you lost after one coaching session when you clearly were underrolled.

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Wasn't one session. I am NOT blaming him for losing.

I only want a refund for unused sessions.

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If you aren't blaming him for losing then you shouldn't have made this post:

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I had the roll for 200nl and was beating it at 1.7ptbb/100. I took snowbanks coaching and in 3 weeks lost everything. So I was expecting to improve and move up. He advertised a 10ptbb/100 winrate!

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...as it is completely irrelevant.

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I agree completely, the way you described it OP, you are saying that you were doing fine grinding breakeven and then after Snowbank got ahold of you, you just automatically started losing every allin and he had you burning money and whatever.

It's not snowbank's fault you went bust, and it's not like he was refusing to give you the sessions you paid for, but there's no reason for him to give you a refund if you seeked out his service.

[pokersanjuan]

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i don't want to explain the physics of it, but you know the sound when you open a can of soda? that's the sound of buying a whole soda.


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Also, if you 'agree' to pay for services in advance and those services are poor or not as advertised you dont think you deserve your money back? If you pay a construction worker up front to build you a circle pool and he builds half a square above ground pool and you say "listen keep the money I paid for what you did, but refund me for unused services b/c this is not what I want" you dont think you should get money back? And like above he says "well all my other clients liked my square above ground pool...FU see ya"

[pokersanjuan]

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If you aren't blaming him for losing then you shouldn't have made this post:

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I had the roll for 200nl and was beating it at 1.7ptbb/100. I took snowbanks coaching and in 3 weeks lost everything. So I was expecting to improve and move up. He advertised a 10ptbb/100 winrate!

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...as it is completely irrelevant.

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was a reply to a question above me

[Scofield]

I can see both sides. Personally, I would think/hope snowbank would just give him his $450 back and make him happy to go away rather than deal with this situation publicly on the forum. I don't think he HAS to, I just think he should. It sucks that you may have lost business or money, and maybe this is a tough stretch here, but companies do refunds all the time, and it pays to keep customers happy and your business in a positive light.

I don't think snowbank did anything wrong and if he keeps the money he still did nothing wrong. But if it comes time for me to pick a coach I can't say I'll be in line to use him, given the way he handled the situation here.

[MasterLJ]

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I had the roll for 200nl and was beating it at 1.7ptbb/100. I took snowbanks coaching and in 3 weeks lost everything. So I was expecting to improve and move up. He advertised a 10ptbb/100 winrate!

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Over how many hands? What was your roll in $?

You are implying that your losses were snowbank's fault. If you're making this kind of implication, you had better be prepared to back it up with documented facts.

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pokersanjuan, this is exactly what I told you in your other thread.

[thac]

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i don't want to explain the physics of it, but you know the sound when you open a can of soda? that's the sound of buying a whole soda.


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Also, if you 'agree' to pay for services in advance and those services are poor or not as advertised you dont think you deserve your money back? If you pay a construction worker up front to build you a circle pool and he builds half a square above ground pool and you say "listen keep the money I paid for what you did, but refund me for unused services b/c this is not what I want" you dont think you should get money back? And like above he says "well all my other clients liked my square above ground pool...FU see ya"

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This is your fault for blindly giving someone, whose style you do not know, 1/4 of your roll for coaching sessions. Maybe you should've looked into how he played/coached before you went so far as to give him 5 sessions at once.

[jk3a]

I teach golf at my job and sometimes sell lessons in groups. If someone decided that they no longer wanted to use a portion of that group, I would be more than happy to refund their money. Keeping it is just bad business.