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#21
02-28-2007, 02:25 AM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
[ QUOTE ]
That's ridiculous. From the tone of your post, it sounds like if you could push a button and disband the U.S. Military you would. [/ QUOTE ] Don't change the topic, no one's talking about that. What we are talking about it joining the military while it's waging aggressive wars with no end in sight. Is it odd to you that the OP has moral qulams with being put in a kill or be killed atmosphere and participating in these aggressive wars? I think it would be odd to me if he didn't. [ QUOTE ] I'm all for less government, but this AC thing is a joke. [/ QUOTE ] I'll gladly debate you on that any time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. However this thread is not the place for it. [ QUOTE ] Grow up, we don't live in hamlets anymore. [/ QUOTE ] Living in hamlets != being opposed to aggressive and unnecessary wars. 
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#22
02-28-2007, 02:31 AM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] That's ridiculous. From the tone of your post, it sounds like if you could push a button and disband the U.S. Military you would. [/ QUOTE ] Don't change the topic, no one's talking about that. What we are talking about it joining the military while it's waging aggressive wars with no end in sight. Is it odd to you that the OP has moral qulams with being put in a kill or be killed atmosphere and participating in these aggressive wars? I think it would be odd to me if he didn't. [ QUOTE ] I'm all for less government, but this AC thing is a joke. [/ QUOTE ] I'll gladly debate you on that any time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. However this thread is not the place for it. [ QUOTE ] Grow up, we don't live in hamlets anymore. [/ QUOTE ] Living in hamlets != being opposed to aggressive and unnecessary wars. [/ QUOTE ] how is being a nuclear engineer anything close to being put in a "kill or be killed" atmosphere?
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#23
02-28-2007, 02:34 AM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] That contract has no moral content whatsoever. You had been brainwashed by your parents and by public school [/ QUOTE ] This seems a little off to me. So I can get out of a contract so long as I think I was brainwashed into it? Say I buy a car with 3 years 0% credit then when the bill comes due (after driving it around for 3 years for free) I decide that the flashy advertising and overbearing sales pitch brainwashed me into buying it. Should I be able to get all my money back? [/ QUOTE ] 18 years of institutionalized soul-crushing propaganda (which brakes most people's brains for life) != flashy ad. [/ QUOTE ] This sounds like opinion. Who is drawing the arbitrary line over which things are brainwashing?
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#24
02-28-2007, 02:43 AM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
[ QUOTE ]
how is being a nuclear engineer anything close to being put in a "kill or be killed" atmosphere? [/ QUOTE ] Hmm, I was under the impression he was doing this after the military, I guess I'm wrong. Still something to be said about doing anything to that's considered helping an aggressive war machine, at least in my (and the OP's) opinion.
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#25
02-28-2007, 03:02 AM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
[ QUOTE ]
Why is that? Working on atomic weapons doesn't sound so wonderful to me. [/ QUOTE ] That is not what he will do as a nuclear engineer. He will work on nuclear reactors.
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#26
02-28-2007, 03:06 AM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
[ QUOTE ]
"killing people for money" when you'd be a nuclear engineer? sorry but that's kind of a ridiculous way to put it. [/ QUOTE ] Nuclear Engineer in the navy equals 1 of 2 things. 1) You work on the engines that power the nuclear subs 2) You get to push the button that launches the nukes from the subs [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I would rather have job #2 because job # 1 kills fish if waste is released and I would rather nuke humans then fish.
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#27
02-28-2007, 03:46 AM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
[ QUOTE ]
Is it odd to you that the OP has moral qulams with being put in a kill or be killed atmosphere [/ QUOTE ] What's odd to me, is not considering you would be put in that situation. It's the military. Considering the time-line I'm assuming his views/beliefs have changed since he signed up, and whether he didn't think we'd be in the situation we're in now or not agreeing with the current situation, doesn't seem to be relevant. He knows he can get out of his commitment, with just monetary repercussions, and basically just repay a loan. But his naivete showed when he said: "p.s. I'm not really worried about my ability to perform as an officer, regardless of whether or not I end up regretting the decision. I've had a lot of experience with analogous situations and always excelled, regardless of my personal feelings... so this isn't an issue." It is an issue, and it will be resolved within his first ninety days. He'll either get with the program or he won't, and despite his thoughts about "bluffing" his way through - it won't happen. Out of the dozen or so officers on the pig boat, half will be Naval Academy Grads or career Officers - and who he is will come out, whether he likes it or not. The way he was treated in NROTC summer school is nothing compared to the way an Ensign is dealt with. The indoctrination happens, and it happens fast. Just like a boot goes through - ninety days. In three months you know everything you need to know about a man. But they won't string him from the gallows. They'll just shuffle him off to some non-critical rearward position. It happens all the time. The guys on the front-line are there because they want to be there, and they won't allow anyone in their fire-team, squad, or as the squids say section, who doesn’t want to be there. Is that just peer pressure? I'm not sure. To me it's more of a sifting process than a follow-the -leader mechanism. Most of the guys just want to know who they're next to.
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#28
02-28-2007, 04:49 PM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
[ QUOTE ]
I would rather nuke humans then fish. [/ QUOTE ] Wow.
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#29
02-28-2007, 05:06 PM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Is it odd to you that the OP has moral qulams with being put in a kill or be killed atmosphere [/ QUOTE ] What's odd to me, is not considering you would be put in that situation. It's the military. [/ QUOTE ] You didn't answer my question at all. Is it odd to you that the OP has moral qualms with being put in a kill or be killed atmosphere (I have been corrected, though, he wouldn't be on the battlefield, so revise that to Is it odd that the OP has moral qualms with working for an aggressive war machine?) [ QUOTE ] Considering the time-line I'm assuming his views/beliefs have changed since he signed up, and whether he didn't think we'd be in the situation we're in now or not agreeing with the current situation, doesn't seem to be relevant. He knows he can get out of his commitment, with just monetary repercussions, and basically just repay a loan. [/ QUOTE ] yes, just $150,000. Don't get me wrong, it is a contract and he's bound by that contract, but that doesn't make it any less of a predicament. in fact it makes it more so. [ QUOTE ] But his naivete showed when he said: "p.s. I'm not really worried about my ability to perform as an officer, regardless of whether or not I end up regretting the decision. I've had a lot of experience with analogous situations and always excelled, regardless of my personal feelings... so this isn't an issue." It is an issue, and it will be resolved within his first ninety days. He'll either get with the program or he won't, and despite his thoughts about "bluffing" his way through - it won't happen. Out of the dozen or so officers on the pig boat, half will be Naval Academy Grads or career Officers - and who he is will come out, whether he likes it or not. The way he was treated in NROTC summer school is nothing compared to the way an Ensign is dealt with. The indoctrination happens, and it happens fast. Just like a boot goes through - ninety days. In three months you know everything you need to know about a man. But they won't string him from the gallows. They'll just shuffle him off to some non-critical rearward position. It happens all the time. The guys on the front-line are there because they want to be there, and they won't allow anyone in their fire-team, squad, or as the squids say section, who doesn’t want to be there. [/ QUOTE ] Well, you defintely know more about this then me. Considering you're either $150,000 in the hole or spend 5 years of your life in the military, it be tempting not to take say a desk job in the miltary if possible. To the OP, We can't really make this decision for you. Only you can. Personally I don't know how much "regular" time you get in the military, but to me having 5 years of life in my 20s gone doesn't sound very appealing. If with your degree you can get a high paying civilian job and just pay off the debt with time I think I'd go with that. You only get to be young once, why spend it having orders barked at you, or doing something you consider morally wrong? But again, this your choice and you must think long and hard about this. I don't envy making that decision either (although i do envy having a good degree [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]).
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#30
03-08-2007, 03:24 AM
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Re: ACist Military Officer? What should I do?
is there really a question here? just move up limits, get robusto and pay it off [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
it's not my position to advise you what I would do in your situation, however there might be some options that you are not aware of. I would get in touch with the folks at www.objector.org and have a free, confidential phone conversation with a counselor who specializes in these things.
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