Eating Meat, Preference or Necessity?

[lucksack]

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But can you explain why you think eating meat is morally wrong besides raising animals in poor conditions?

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I'll try to answer too, if it's ok. Basically, I can't see many rational differences between killing (and eating) a human and killing a pig. Especially if the human in question is a very little child or has some severe brain damage. And killing people is wrong, right?

[vhawk01]

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But can you explain why you think eating meat is morally wrong besides raising animals in poor conditions?

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I'll try to answer too, if it's ok. Basically, I can't see many rational differences between killing (and eating) a human and killing a pig. Especially if the human in question is a very little child or has some severe brain damage. And killing people is wrong, right?

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Thats the first step towards making a point, but it isn't actually making a point. WHY is killing a human being wrong? What assumptions are you basing that on, and are these assumptions shared by all humans, or at least most?

[Jiggymike]

I think that 'eating meat' is actually a two part question that most people only address one part of. Lots of people who argue against eating meat are in fact arguing against the raising of animals to be slaughtered and the poor conditions they are housed in. I actually agree 100% with this point - if you are going to raise animals to have them killed and sold, you should at least be responsible for making sure the animal lives a decent life. I eat meat but I will not order veal because I think, while it is not inhumane to kill an animal for food purposes, it IS inhumane to let it live in a box and feed it unnatural foods (same goes for foie grois). If I have the opportunity to eat free range meat (and can afford it), I do so.

The next part of the equation is the actual killing for consumption. In my mind, if you raise an animal for it to be killed, as long as you take care of it and are doing it to support yourself as a business, it is not morally wrong. Killing of ANY animal is sort of wrong (catching fish and keeping it upsets me a little because they just look so pathetic when you put them in a cooler or something) but it is JUSTIFIABLE if there are good reasons for it - and I think eating meat is a fine reason. It tastes good and it provides the body with nutrients. Yes, it is possible to get them from vegetables but I do not have a moral dilemma with eating animals, even if I am a complete animal lover (which I am).

On the other hand, I do not really agree with hunting. Most people hunt because it makes them feel 'manly' or because they want a trophy. I don't care what anyone says but there is NO challenge in shooting a deer - yeah yeah, you have to stalk it and keep it from running away, whatever. Kill it with your bare hands and MAYBE I'll be okay with it but to sneak up on a wild animal and shoot it is different for me than raising an animal specifically as a business proposition.

[vhawk01]

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I think that 'eating meat' is actually a two part question that most people only address one part of. Lots of people who argue against eating meat are in fact arguing against the raising of animals to be slaughtered and the poor conditions they are housed in. I actually agree 100% with this point - if you are going to raise animals to have them killed and sold, you should at least be responsible for making sure the animal lives a decent life. I eat meat but I will not order veal because I think, while it is not inhumane to kill an animal for food purposes, it IS inhumane to let it live in a box and feed it unnatural foods (same goes for foie grois). If I have the opportunity to eat free range meat (and can afford it), I do so.

The next part of the equation is the actual killing for consumption. In my mind, if you raise an animal for it to be killed, as long as you take care of it and are doing it to support yourself as a business, it is not morally wrong. Killing of ANY animal is sort of wrong (catching fish and keeping it upsets me a little because they just look so pathetic when you put them in a cooler or something) but it is JUSTIFIABLE if there are good reasons for it - and I think eating meat is a fine reason. It tastes good and it provides the body with nutrients. Yes, it is possible to get them from vegetables but I do not have a moral dilemma with eating animals, even if I am a complete animal lover (which I am).

On the other hand, I do not really agree with hunting. Most people hunt because it makes them feel 'manly' or because they want a trophy. I don't care what anyone says but there is NO challenge in shooting a deer - yeah yeah, you have to stalk it and keep it from running away, whatever. Kill it with your bare hands and MAYBE I'll be okay with it but to sneak up on a wild animal and shoot it is different for me than raising an animal specifically as a business proposition.

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Well, I have a problem with what you are saying. You are saying it is JUSTIFIABLE because we get things out of it, but then you freely admit that they are things we could get elsewhere with no suffering. So, how then is it justifiable?

[Jiggymike]

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Well, I have a problem with what you are saying. You are saying it is JUSTIFIABLE because we get things out of it, but then you freely admit that they are things we could get elsewhere with no suffering. So, how then is it justifiable?

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Well what if I just said that it was justifiable because people enjoy eating meat, would that change anything? Or what about it is easier/less expensive to get those nutrients from meat? What I'm saying is that I don't think there is anything wrong with killing an animal for meat IF THAT IS THE SOLE PURPOSE FOR ITS EXISTENCE (caps for emphasis, not to be yelling). I'm not saying that killing animals is great, just that it isn't wrong.

[kevin017]

i have a question for the anti-meat eaters, it goes back to the bear example.

if you think there is no difference between killing an animal for fun, and killing it to eat it, how can you sit idly by while bears and other animals are killing and eating animals? shouldn't you be forming groups to stop the atrocities committed by bears?

[David Sklansky]

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These animals are no longer wild and only exist for commercial purposes, if they weren't being raised they would basically be extinct. Which option is preferable?

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It's definitely better to never exist than to be born for the sole purpose of being slaughtered and live an unnatural life full of pain. And even most of the "best" farmers still keep animals in uncomfortable prisons where they can't live even nearly like they would if they were free and in nature.

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Obviously. Which is why Borodogs point, if serious, was completely irrelevant.

[lucksack]

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if you think there is no difference between killing an animal for fun, and killing it to eat it, how can you sit idly by while bears and other animals are killing and eating animals? shouldn't you be forming groups to stop the atrocities committed by bears?

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It's part of the nature. Bears, unlike humans, can't make decisions based on ethics and I'm also pretty sure they really need to eat meat. So being killed by a bear is very different from being killed by a human.

[David Sklansky]

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I agree you don't need meat. From the American Dietetic Association:

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It is the position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate and provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.

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I have been a vegetarian all my life, and have never taken nutritional supplements. I'm 6', 190 pounds, and lean. I played rugby and ran track through high school. I was the dux of my school, and have a IIa honors degree in math and physics. I'm now 25, in good shape and have never had a medical problem. My grandad is 84 and has been a vegetarian for 33 years, and he's also in excellent health and still works 4 days a week. He became a vegetarian after having high blood pressure, angina, and arthritis at 50, all of which a vegetarian diet (and vitamin E supplements) completely cured.

Most people who try vegetarian diets have problems because they don't understand nutrition. You need to eat wholegrains (in fact, everyone should - it'd cut cancer and and heart disease by 30%) instead of white/processed and occasionally have high mineral/vitamin foods such as nuts. That's it. Everything else is as normal.

Regarding your actual post - I don't see anything horribly wrong with eating meat, especially chicken and fish. However, higher mammals such as cows definitely have the ability to feel emotions, and they experience pain, distress and discomfort. I don't feel comfortable breeding such creatures solely for the purpose of killing and eating them - especially when they inevitably experience distress during the process. I find the idea barbaric. Is human life valuable only because it's intelligent and highly self-aware? I think human to animal awareness/emotion is far more of a continuum than many would believe.

I think cruelty to animals is different to meat eating, because torturing involves gaining pleasure solely from a creature's misery. It's a different mindset.

Sorry for the long post.

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A+

[lucksack]

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Well what if I just said that it was justifiable because people enjoy eating meat, would that change anything? Or what about it is easier/less expensive to get those nutrients from meat?

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You can't seriously think that if something tastes a little better in one's mouth and/or makes it's life a tiny little bit easier, it justifies KILLING a similar being?

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What I'm saying is that I don't think there is anything wrong with killing an animal for meat IF THAT IS THE SOLE PURPOSE FOR ITS EXISTENCE

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Why would this matter? It's kinda like with babies, if you don't want to get kids, you don't need to make them, and because they never exist, you don't do anything wrong to them. But once a child is born, it has rights, and you can't just decide to kill it (even if that was the sole purpose for its existence).