For atheists....how?

[Metric]

Holding on to what you want to believe is fine -- there's nothing wrong with making a choice in that regard. But you really shouldn't do it out of fear.

Your consciousness will remain every bit a part of reality, even in the most atheistic sense. The distinction between future, past, and present is somewhat misunderstood -- they're all a part of the same state of the universe. You should not think of death as "an event which causes you not to be" -- you should think of death (along with conception) more as a boundary to the little region of spacetime defining your existence. That corner of spacetime will always be yours; you do exist -- you have been granted reality along with the rest of the universe -- and nothing can ever change that.

[evil twin]

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you should think of death (along with conception) more as a boundary to the little region of spacetime defining your existence. That corner of spacetime will always be yours; you do exist -- you have been granted reality along with the rest of the universe -- and nothing can ever change that.

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Awesome.

[Dane S]

My thinking has led me to believe that death isn't really possible because an end to a subjective perception isn't possible because there is no reference point outside of this subjective perception that can define it as ended. So I guess that means the last millisecond of life will last an eternity... or perhaps all this is just the last millisecond of some earlier life. Regardless my reasoning won't allow existence to end (though I can certainly see how it might change around a hell of a lot). I reached this conclusion a few years ago then later encountered it in Borges, Buddhism, and Schopenhauer.

[JDalla]

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My thinking has led me to believe that death isn't really possible because an end to a subjective perception isn't possible because there is no reference point outside of this subjective perception that can define it as ended. So I guess that means the last millisecond of life will last an eternity... or perhaps all this is just the last millisecond of some earlier life. Regardless my reasoning won't allow existence to end (though I can certainly see how it might change around a hell of a lot). I reached this conclusion a few years ago then later encountered it in Borges, Buddhism, and Schopenhauer.

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This argument kind of reminds of me that paradox (forget the guy's name) of getting from point A to B. You start at A, but before you can get to B you must go halfway to B. And before you get there, you must go half way to half way... etc. Since C>0 /2/2/2/2/2/2/2.... >0, you "shouldn't" ever be able to get anywhere.

you could run the same paradox for life... if I'm going to live 10 more year, first I must live 5, but first 2.5, but fist 1.25.... but fist .00001 etc.

I know its not exactly what you were getting at, I think my point is these things are fun to think about, but to deny that we can't actually die or go anywhere seems a little... silly?

[vhawk01]

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My thinking has led me to believe that death isn't really possible because an end to a subjective perception isn't possible because there is no reference point outside of this subjective perception that can define it as ended. So I guess that means the last millisecond of life will last an eternity... or perhaps all this is just the last millisecond of some earlier life. Regardless my reasoning won't allow existence to end (though I can certainly see how it might change around a hell of a lot). I reached this conclusion a few years ago then later encountered it in Borges, Buddhism, and Schopenhauer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This argument kind of reminds of me that paradox (forget the guy's name) of getting from point A to B. You start at A, but before you can get to B you must go halfway to B. And before you get there, you must go half way to half way... etc. Since C>0 /2/2/2/2/2/2/2.... >0, you "shouldn't" ever be able to get anywhere.

you could run the same paradox for life... if I'm going to live 10 more year, first I must live 5, but first 2.5, but fist 1.25.... but fist .00001 etc.

I know its not exactly what you were getting at, I think my point is these things are fun to think about, but to deny that we can't actually die or go anywhere seems a little... silly?

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Zeno.

[evolvedForm]

I've come to a similar conclusion (though not expressed as clearly) and I don't think Zeno's paradox is analogous. Zeno's paradox takes place in the realm of physical, obersvable motion, while the death paradox, if you will, occurs as a result of a lack of subjective reference. Saying one doesn't 'die' is incorrect. One should say rather that one doesn't experience death.

[Bork]

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My thinking has led me to believe that death isn't really possible because an end to a subjective perception isn't possible because there is no reference point outside of this subjective perception that can define it as ended. So I guess that means the last millisecond of life will last an eternity... or perhaps all this is just the last millisecond of some earlier life. Regardless my reasoning won't allow existence to end (though I can certainly see how it might change around a hell of a lot). I reached this conclusion a few years ago then later encountered it in Borges, Buddhism, and Schopenhauer.

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What are you talking about? You may recall all those people that you have seen that are now dead? Your reference point surely defines them as dead. There is nothing mystical about your own experiences ceasing, they just do. It's similar to if you are knocked unconscious, but permanently. I'm guessing you have slept before.

[vhawk01]

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My thinking has led me to believe that death isn't really possible because an end to a subjective perception isn't possible because there is no reference point outside of this subjective perception that can define it as ended. So I guess that means the last millisecond of life will last an eternity... or perhaps all this is just the last millisecond of some earlier life. Regardless my reasoning won't allow existence to end (though I can certainly see how it might change around a hell of a lot). I reached this conclusion a few years ago then later encountered it in Borges, Buddhism, and Schopenhauer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This argument kind of reminds of me that paradox (forget the guy's name) of getting from point A to B. You start at A, but before you can get to B you must go halfway to B. And before you get there, you must go half way to half way... etc. Since C>0 /2/2/2/2/2/2/2.... >0, you "shouldn't" ever be able to get anywhere.

you could run the same paradox for life... if I'm going to live 10 more year, first I must live 5, but first 2.5, but fist 1.25.... but fist .00001 etc.

I know its not exactly what you were getting at, I think my point is these things are fun to think about, but to deny that we can't actually die or go anywhere seems a little... silly?

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Zeno.

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Btw, this reminds me of the first time I ever learned about Zeno's paradox. We were in math class in probably 9th or 10th grade, and I was far less well-read than I am now. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] So, I had never heard of Zeno before, or anything about this paradox. So, I figure it out on my own, specifically in the context of "a bullet can never actually hit me," and explain my great insight to my math teacher. He just laughs at me and tells me to go look into a guy named Zeno.

Turns out I was only about 2500 years behind humanity in 9th grade. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[TimWillTell]

When I die, I cease to exist, just like the hurricane rages over the land becomes weaker and finally is gone.

And exactly in the same way as the hurricane is not afraid to lay down and die, I also know no fear for dieing.

The only fear that I could have, is that when I die, I will not have raged enough.
That's way, except for murder, I have committed every sin in the book.
And if murder was to come on my path of life, I will not hesitate to pull my knife; for in rage I have lived and in rage I will die, swearing and cursing, going going gone...!

[vhawk01]

Lot of poets on this thread! Where is FM when we need him?