"Unions" for dealers?

[juanez]

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I dont really think they(unions) would go in and bully around the casinos every year demanding pay raises...

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Our dealers do very well from thier tokes alone. The hourly wage is insignificant to most of them.

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but it could provide better benefits

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Our dealers get the exact same benefits as management.

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better scheduling (ie seniority)

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That's the kicker. See my replies about that above. So a guy who's been dealing 20 years but can only get out 10 hands an hour gets the best schedule? LMAO [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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and keep management from f'n people around

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This is why companies have HR departments these days, just so management can't f people around. Anyone at anytime can go to HR and complain about anything that they feel is unutoward and it will be addressed.

[52s]

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Many rooms are only hiring part-timers so that they can save on benefits.


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I just noticed this...

There's over 300 unemployed poker dealers in Vegas (last rough number I heard), and no room is going to hire a FT off the streets when everyone in town surely has a XB list a mile deep of people looking for more hours.

Most rooms now are switching to hiring on as XB and then giving the FT jobs to the dealers that are on board.

Rooms aren't saving on benefits; what they have is the leisure to hire multiples of dealers, trim the fat, give the dealers who've earned it FT jobs, and the rest, whether they failed to get a FT spot or chose to stay on as XB, can stay as XB.

[juanez]

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I just noticed this...

There's over 300 unemployed poker dealers in Vegas (last rough number I heard), and no room is going to hire a FT off the streets when everyone in town surely has a XB list a mile deep of people looking for more hours.

Most rooms now are switching to hiring on as XB and then giving the FT jobs to the dealers that are on board.

Rooms aren't saving on benefits; what they have is the leisure to hire multiples of dealers, trim the fat, give the dealers who've earned it FT jobs, and the rest, whether they failed to get a FT spot or chose to stay on as XB, can stay as XB.


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I think I understand what you're saying here and agree. If we had an audition we would easily have 50 dealers lined up trying to get on as XB/brush just to get their feet wet and get in the damn room.

[RR]

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at Wynn Las Vegas we have management gettiung in on the Pit dealers tokes.


Management is not allowed to "get into" any dealer tokes. The Floor can't even accept tips from players here...it's a state law. For management, it's what the company pays you, nothing else.


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I want to clarify that it is in the pit where there is an issue at Wynn. I do not know what's traditional in the pit. In poker it is traditional for the dealers to tip the floor staff (some places it is a set amount and some places the dealers give what they feel is right).

[Nalapoint1]

we made $22/hr plus benefits, business agents made $100,000 and more plus benefits and perks.
we get fixed pension, union reps gave themselves a big pension raise just prior to retiring
we pay for poor management through smaller and fewer pay increases, less benefits, and smaller pension; union reps live big and retire fat with no accountability
for more details call FBI in Buffalo NY and ask about construction unions in New York State
It is all about money

[tourney guy]

Union for poker dealers in a disaster.

1) Right now, they pay taxes on 7.50 or so per hour, when in fact, they pay 30.00/hr or better.

** The very first thing a union would bring is a pooling of the tips similar to the pit. That means that every one, including payroll,and by extension, the IRS, would know what the dealers were making. Thus, they would be paying taxes on ALL OF THEIR MONEY, not only the negitiated $7.50/hour tip compliance rate.

To do a crude calculation - I think the dealers pay taxes at $7.50/hr. So, if they work 2080 hours per year and pay tax on 7.50/hour, they pay taxes on 15,600.

If tips were pooled, I say in the top 5 houses in LV poker, the delaers would pay taxes on AT LEAST $55,000/year.

So, tax owed in non-pooled scenario = 15,600x.15=$2340
Tax owed in pooled scenario = $55,000x.25=$13750

Cost to poker dealer = 13750 - 2340 = $11410.

2) If dealers go union, you can bet the primary negotiation that management will bargain for, in a trade for higher wages, is to do exactly what Wynn did and get poker dealers to kick up some in a mandatory fashion to the suits.

In some houses, this already occurs, for sure. In many, not only is tipping not mandatory, the dealers flaunt the fact that they do not tip. Management would love to stick in mandatory tipping in a union agreement!!!

3) How do you think dealers would be treated??? For example, if a manager HAS to keep dealers working - can you say DEAD SPREADS!!!!!!!!!

4) At Wynn, I have no problem with compelling dealers to toke out the floor staff. The only issue Wynn had was that they did not do it from day one. It gives off a false pretense in the hiring process. If they told the dealers from day one that they had to fork over X percent to the floor staff..and they didn't accept the job, that is one thing.

By switching it up after the fact, it comes off as a little sneaky.

I will say this.....being in pit games for a decade before going to poker.....the dealers at Wynn are way out of line. Just beacuse the dealers get the tips, it is at the behest of management to allow the dealers to accept the tips. People forget that. In Nevada, you are entitled to NOTHING. It is a right to work state, and the owners have all the power.

This reminds me of the Ipamena girls at the Rio. When HET management proposed modest changes for the girls, they went up in arms and refused to implement any of them.

As a result, the Rio eliminated the position and brought in singing cocktail servers. Business did not suffer one inch, and very rich women (100K/year) +were out of a job.

Do you think Wynn's business would suffer if every dealer walked out tomorrow???

Not a chance....they would have just as good, and maybe better dealers, in 2 days flat!!!

Poker dealers have the absolute nuts, and they should be more than grateful for what they have. Most are not, and I am afraid they will begin to suffer from the greed!!!!!

[psandman]

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The very first thing a union would bring is a pooling of the tips similar to the pit.

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I don't know why you jump to this conclusion. Since almost no Poker Dealers I know would prefer a pooling arrangement, I don't see why you think a union representing them would seek that.


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If dealers go union, you can bet the primary negotiation that management will bargain for, in a trade for higher wages, is to do exactly what Wynn did and get poker dealers to kick up some in a mandatory fashion to the suits.

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How do you reach this conclusion, did this happen with Union bartenders, cocktail waitresses or food servers?

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How do you think dealers would be treated??? For example, if a manager HAS to keep dealers working - can you say DEAD SPREADS!!!!!!!!!

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so you are saying that there aren't rooms with dead spreads now?

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At Wynn, I have no problem with compelling dealers to toke out the floor staff. The only issue Wynn had was that they did not do it from day one. It gives off a false pretense in the hiring process. If they told the dealers from day one that they had to fork over X percent to the floor staff..and they didn't accept the job, that is one thing.

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I don't disagree with this. But the point isn't whether you or I see it this way, the point is that if dealers want to fight these types of policies there best bet is to unionize.

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Poker dealers have the absolute nuts, and they should be more than grateful for what they have. Most are not, and I am afraid they will begin to suffer from the greed!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ] just want to make sure I understand you, the job I recently quit, where I often dealt only 1/2 hour out of every 90 minutes I was there (and of course received no tokes during the other time) and where my manager tried to pay me less than minimum wage was the absolute [censored] nuts and I should be grateful for that job and I'm greedy to want more than that? Some jobs are better than others and right now there are a lot of poker jobs out there that aren't so great, and some that could be much better if management was so busy [censored] things up.

[VORP]

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The casino I work for already does everything by seniority

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This is a foolish system IMHO, but it IS how things were done in our room as well for years and years. A crappy dealer who's been around forever gets the best shifts when a great dealer who's been there a few months less gets a worse one? Doesn't seem too fair to me.

We now have a rating system in place. This is one of the HUGE issues our dealers have right now. The highest score gets to choose their schedule. The next highest score chooses next, etc., etc. If you're on the bottom, you get a part time shift and a few brush shifts. Improve before the next rating and you can improve your schedule. You're simply rated on your performance. Anything wrong with that? I think that's how most of the working world works, no? Except union workers of course (like 12% or so of the workforce in the US).

If you're a quarterback who's been on the team 5 years, but you suck bigtime, do you get to start even though the rookie QB kicks ass and can run circles around you? Of course not.

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I didn’t mean to say that seniority was a great system. It’s just the least unfair system I’ve seen in place and so I’m assuming it is what a union would try and make standard. But since it’s already in place, what need would there be for a union?

This is the first I’ve heard of a rating system. I think it’s an awesome idea, but I’m pretty skeptical of how could actually work. If you get a chance, could you give a little more detail? The big problems I see are that a lot of things are hard to quantify and that many floor supervisors know less about dealing than many of the dealers.

[psandman]

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But since it’s already in place, what need would there be for a union?

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Without getting into a discussion of whether seniority is a good system or not . . .

Just because a policy that is good is currently in place doesn't mean that there isn't benefit to having it made a contractual obligation. Without a collective bargaining system in place the current policy could be changed tomorrow.

As for a rating system, I opened one room where they told us that since we all had the same seniority that after 90 days they would rate us and that we would then get to bid on shifts based on our ratings. After the 90 days we were told that the ratings were all so close that they were basically indistinguishable. I never even saw my rating since it was irrelevant anyway and I ended up quitting shortly afterwards. I have no idea how they decided shift bids.

[pig4bill]

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If you're a quarterback who's been on the team 5 years, but you suck bigtime, do you get to start even though the rookie QB kicks ass and can run circles around you? Of course not.

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I wish a certain veteran quarterback had started a week ago rather than the young new "hotshot".