So... I'm not reraising PF anymore. Is that wrong?

[Mclane665]

APXG

I may be inclined to agree with you if its a 150bb deep cash game but this is tournament play. You need to accumulate chips where you can. I cant imagine a load of weak tight old men in a £1000 live tournament. In a tournament 40bb becomes 20bb very quickly when the blinds double and after releasing QQ or AA on a draw heavy flop against 4-5 players you just might start to have some regrets that you didnt pick up an extra 10-20% more chips in your stack.

[LearnedfromTV]

The only place this makes superficial sense with QQ and AA is at tight-passive tables, but at tight passive tables there is so much value to be gained from reraising often and running people over that you have to also reraise your big hands.

I think you have to reraise the QQ, almost regardless of table dynamics, from the SB versus a LP raiser, even though it is "the botton end of a default reraising range" because otherwise you are forcing yourself to give up a ton of value playing it OOP multiway instead of headsup. You're also overestimating the value of the hand if you think somewhat frequently winning 10 bb without seeing a flop is a bad result for QQ in the SB.

There is no way you're only getting action from KK+, AK in that spot, and if you are, you should be reraising your ass off until they adjust. Regardless, you should be reraising wider than KK+, and that doesn't just mean adding QQ.

With a specific opponent I suppose the AA could be ok, but he needs to be terrified of threebet pots and a calling station fish postflop. This does somewhat describe the average live player, and generally avoiding/scaling back reraising makes more sense in live tournament play than online cash games, but if you are the better player you are still probably better off building pots with a wide range of hands rather than taking this approach.

I like calling the AJ much better than the other two; you're unlikely to get a flop you want to put in heavy action with. Reverse implied odds, etc. But if you think QQ has the same problems, the solution isn't to back off with QQ but to adjust your image. QQ is too strong to play that passively, and if you have to play it passively your image is too tight.

[hurricaneace67]

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I'd definately reraise that QQ with so many potential players coming in. The other 2 are fine.

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Actually, I thought this was the clearest smooth call. We start with 2500 chips and this is level one. So there is say 250 chips in the pot or a 10% increase in my chip stack. HOWEVER!!!! Calling and playing for set value may double me up. ALSO!!!! I'm definately turning QQ into 27o here by raising. I'm only getting action from AA/KK/AK really, and AK folds if it misses the flop. Thusly, just as good to raise 27o like this.

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I disagree that you are turning your hand into 27o. You are giving people too much credit. You will definitely get action sometimes from less than AA/KK/AK. But what you are really doing is turning your hand into 22, and that is just a waste.

On the 2nd hand, I would only flat call if HJ is very nitty. Otherwise I am definitely reraising.

I generally only flat call a raise with AA when the stacks are between 10 and 25 bb. Deepstacked this is a must reraise with AA.

[NoahSD]

LFT,
I think you made a good argument for why calling with AJ is awkward there. I think AJ is pretty easy to play in position with the betting impetus, and really hard to play there without it.

[b-komplex]

Really the important thing here is not to have such a narrow range for reraising *and* cold-calling as to allow your opponents to play back optimally ie FTOP. I do a lot of cold-calling deep stacked in donkaments and it works well for me. But my range is way wider than the Gap Theory would suggest. In cash games or other situations where post-flop play is way different I am more TAG but my 3-bet range is a lot wider.

[Bond18]

I am definately not in the boat that cold calling AA here is criminal.

First of all you might get a blind to try a squeeze and you will punish him.



Second if it was an EP raise and you called in MP i like it less becuase
A. An EP raise is more likely to pay off your reraise
B. there might be numerous others coming along.
But this is LP raiser and and ur the button, which means only 2 players left to act, who MIGHT think they can squeeze.

Also hand 1, i think you get action from way more hands than AA/KK/AK that early in a tournament, especially given how poor a $1000 field is these days. Your overestimating your opponents.

As long as we're turning hands into other hhands, just calling QQ here turns it into 22.

[Easy17]

I dont know enough to intelligently comment on OP's points, good discussion tho -

But I was at a table other night 109 stars with a guy who reraised EVERY hand he played, for about an hour. As a matter of fact, he would not enter a pot if it had not been raised at least once already. At first I thought, wtf is this guy doing, but it actually worked well for him - he induced alot of preflop folds, or worse, call and flop folds that it balanced out the times he would have to lay down to a push.

just thought id mention it - but i do agree that any style of poker that becomes predictable is bad poker.

[LearnedfromTV]

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LFT,
I think you made a good argument for why calling with AJ is awkward there. I think AJ is pretty easy to play in position with the betting impetus, and really hard to play there without it.

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I think AK is pretty easy to play in position with the betting impetus (in a 3bet pot), for roughly the reasons discussed. What's the plan with AJ? Flop a pair, get to showdown as cheaply as possible; miss, bluff hard at the big pot you built? The difference between AK and AJ is that AK's one pair has a lot more value in a reraised pot.

The main reason I said that calling AJ made the most sense to me (in contrast to the QQ) is that it is ahead of his raising range and behind his 3bet calling range. CSC seemed to be arguing the same thing was true of the QQ, and I disagree with him on that. This doesn't mean I would never reraise AJ; just that of the three examples CSC gave...

Of course with the AA, the issue is different because it's entirely about getting value. Calling may occasionally be the best way to get value, but generally if a reraise ruins your action with AA, coldcalling AA is not the first way I'd try to fix the problem (some very tight opponents may give you no choice, though).

[TheNewf]

Hand 1 I really think you should reraise as others have said. The 2nd hand is fine, though if he's really nitty you should fold, not call. I so prefer the reraise here though, because as others have said the hand will be difficult to play postflop. I have no idea why people hate hand 3, this is practically standard these days if you have a tight table image (I'd prboably not want to be much more than 50xBB deep though). If you have a looser image though you're giving away a lot of value since people we call a 3-bet light.

[stjohnychan]

I'm curious about the title of your post. Are you really not reraising PF at all? If you are deep stacked you just smooth call or fold? It seems like even if your goal is to maximize post flop action, there must be times when that would be easier if the preflop pot was bigger. But based on the examples you give-- if you're not reraising any of these hands, what would you reraise w/? (And if you only reraise weak and smooth call strong, won't people pick up on that?)

Just the clearest example, to me-- your #3. You've got AA, and you're on the button. So you've got cards and position-- i'm not sure how much "out-playing" is left to do after the flop. Just charge the villain for the pony ride. Sometimes he will fold to your raise and you'll win a smaller pot then you'd like, but sometimes he'll call and that will build the pot. And sometimes of course, he'll reraise YOU, and while you might not feel very skillful pushing, getting all your money in while this far ahead hopefully makes up for it.

If he calls-- isn't the larger pot going to create momentum for more action post-flop?


(Of course sometimes you'll want to vary your play and just call headsup w/ the AA, but here we're only talking about ALWAYS smoothcalling).