from 5/10 to 10/20 t o15/30

[DrMega]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


whatever...im sorry I even brought this post up, I guess nobody undertands my Point of view

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't take it personal, people are actually trying to help you. Save this post and look at it one year from now and if you've improved as a player, trust me you'll have a good laugh.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absolutely true. I had a similar situaiton when I started playing limit and now I think back on it and laugh. Trust me - the more you play you'll adjust your game and beat the bejesus out of these games.

Also, as mentioned, read Small Stakes Hold 'Em. Harman is great, but the advice doesn't translate to low-limit games with many callers.

One final thing I've had to adjust to: Most loose-passive players will *never* try to bluff you. If they wake up on fourth street and raise you're probably beaten. Check for redraws and muck your hand if you have few or none. It sucks but will pay off in the long haul.

Good luck.

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
In order to be a good limit player you have to learn how to beat loose/passive (calling station) and loose/aggressive (maniac) type games.
In these games you have to open up your starting standards some. Limp with any pocket pair and mid to high suited connectors. You will loose more with big pairs and AK but win some big pots when you hit trips or a straight/flush.
Focus on winning the big pots when you have a big edge in the hand and folding marginal draws when the pot is small.
One problem in playing in these type games is sometimes you will go card dead and have loosing sessions. If moves don't work and the hand goes to showdown everytime, sometimes three or four way you have to have the goods to win.
Read SSHE and impliment what it teaches or else go back to no-limit where you can bet enough to get people not to chase properly.

Also think about this, how profitable would it be if you raised with AA in mid position and everyone folded. How much will you make in a tight game like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

nh, sir

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
One final thing I've had to adjust to: Most loose-passive players will *never* try to bluff you. If they wake up on fourth street and raise you're probably beaten. Check for redraws and muck your hand if you have few or none. It sucks but will pay off in the long haul.

[/ QUOTE ]

...or the second to last thing.

Once you learn that LPs won't bluff you and you start laying down hands, you'll realize that they also frequently overvalue their hands and THINK they've got a better hand when often yours is better. Then you have to improve your hand reading skills (and player reading skills) so you can decide which to lay down and which to value raise.

Then, after that, there's probably another "last thing to know." I just don't know what I don't know, yet.

CJ

[HoneyBadger]

My problem is often they think they have a worse hand than me, but still call down. I'm wondering why they don't raise, so I keep firing figuring my hand is good. What I fail to realize is that my previous betting and raising scared them, and they are now just calling and hoping to win. For example, I have QJ, flop comes Q2Q 3 players. Bet, call, I raise, call, limp 3 bet... I cap. Turn check, bet, I raise again. He just calls. River he checks, I bet, he calls. He shows 22 for the flopped boat.

[DrMega]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One final thing I've had to adjust to: Most loose-passive players will *never* try to bluff you. If they wake up on fourth street and raise you're probably beaten. Check for redraws and muck your hand if you have few or none. It sucks but will pay off in the long haul.

[/ QUOTE ]

...or the second to last thing.

Once you learn that LPs won't bluff you and you start laying down hands, you'll realize that they also frequently overvalue their hands and THINK they've got a better hand when often yours is better. Then you have to improve your hand reading skills (and player reading skills) so you can decide which to lay down and which to value raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that's a good one. I just had an instance of that last night when I missed a value raise after flopping a low boat with a PP and having a LP re-raise (it may have even been a check raise) me on the river. I was convinced he'd flopped trips and made a better boat on the river so I just crying called. Turned out he rivered a really bad runner runner straight and was super proud of it apparently.

I was initially thinking of pretty two-dimentional situations where you've made it painfully obvious you have an overpair and suddenly some calling station check raises your turn bet when he makes his second pair on Q-9.

This game is complicated. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Black_Angler]

First off, you aren't an idiot like most people here are saying. Your beliefs were common beliefs to low limit players trying to build up before the publish of Small Stakes Hold Em. Your problem is that you are trying to play a 5-10 game like a 20-40 game (here in LA, some 20-40 games don't even play like 20-40 games). You are trying to apply the principles of Hold Em for Advanced Players in a game that just isn't geared for it (Although if memory serves correctly, they do address loose play in HEAP, just not as indepthly as in SSHE).

Other then you being called an idiot, the advice here has been solid. READ SSHE, UNDERSTAND the concepts, and more importantly have faith that the concepts work. You can beat the loose 5-10 game but you need to understand a different set of concepts then those that are taught in the advanced player series. It will serve you well, for once you move up, some higher limit games will turn very loose at times and you can utilize the same concepts to crush them!

Best of luck,

DW

[Black_Angler]

[ QUOTE ]
My problem is often they think they have a worse hand than me, but still call down. I'm wondering why they don't raise, so I keep firing figuring my hand is good. What I fail to realize is that my previous betting and raising scared them, and they are now just calling and hoping to win. For example, I have QJ, flop comes Q2Q 3 players. Bet, call, I raise, call, limp 3 bet... I cap. Turn check, bet, I raise again. He just calls. River he checks, I bet, he calls. He shows 22 for the flopped boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

But in all fairness, flopping a boat like that is a weak boat (albeit stronger in limit then it is in NL). One sunny afternoon at a nice fat SD NL game, I built up my stack to a respectable $1200 (in a 2-3 game). I flopped the small boat like that, lost to a larger boat after we both went all in on the flop. Lost my entire stack and haven't played NL since. Beats like that make me twitch [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[wardnine]

while we're on the subject of SSHE I was wondering what people think about the starting hand selections in that book? Don't you think they're a bit too loose, especially the hand selections they have for loose tables? I know it all depends on the situation but still...

[Black_Angler]

Before I respond, I should note that my experience in small stakes is almost exclusively live games, so if you are referring to online play you should take this with a grain of salt.

I think if you are getting the players on the flop that they assume in the book, you are fine. Usually low limit live games always have the players (the looseness hardly ever dries up, except if you are playing on the days where it seems like they are offering a free Senior Buffet). In low limit you just have to watch the aggressive games. Sometimes a table can shift from passive to aggressive and if you don't react accordingly and very quickly, you could leak some bets. So I would say so long as you aren't in a game that has gone hyper-aggressive, the starting hand requirements are pretty good.

I also like to watch my relative position. So if I have a borderline late position starting hand from SSHE, and the blinds are aggressive players, I might let it go (even though I have position).

But that's just my opinion [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

DW

[HoneyBadger]

for online games $3/6 and up SSHE is too loose. (the tight chart)