BAH HATE THIS SPOT HAND V A RAID OF PRINNIEZ

[BobboFitos]

44 down im definately folding. (unless i turn my hand into a bluff, but then om counting on getting krantz to lay down 88 and down)

here I think calling > fold or 3bet. I am likely check calling the turn, but it really depends what falls.

[yvesaint]

turn ($500): Kx

i check, krantz bets $333, i .....?

this turn was closest part of the hand imo

i have about $1050 left

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

This is a good time to crai. Hell you can even rep AK!

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a good time to crai. Hell you can even rep AK!

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r ai reps stronger then ak bc AK is a weird flop bet/call.

it represents abluff (like 78, your hand, etc) or trips+

if krantz can only call with trips to a c/rai then its a nice bluff spot, but i think he can def call with less here.

[Josh.]

[ QUOTE ]
turn ($500): Kx

i check, krantz bets $333, i .....?

this turn was closest part of the hand imo

i have about $1050 left

[/ QUOTE ]



no reason to shove except to protect your hand, which isn't all that necessary. either he's bluffing or he's not.

K was a pretty bad card for you. of his assortments of crap that he could've raised on the flop, plenty have a K. i'd probably just let it go at this point. sometimes he has a K, sometimes he gives up on his bluff. so i think you're beat more often than not

this is a pretty tough spot because your best non-trips hands are not all that much different from the one you have. he will sometimes have JJ or QQ, but aside from that QQ is pretty much equal to 77.

[Josh.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good time to crai. Hell you can even rep AK!

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r ai reps stronger then ak bc AK is a weird flop bet/call.


[/ QUOTE ]


in a lot of ways, calling the flop with AK is better than 77. krantz either has a big hand or air. so 77 is no different than AK in terms of showdown value. but krantz can have KK-JJ, leaving us with more outs. he can also use an A or K as a bluffing card, which he won't expect us to have hit. there's a chance that he has KQ or something and we stack him if he hits a K. and when we have 77, he almost always has 6 outs plus runner-runner counterfeit outs. with AK, he will often have only 3 outs

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good time to crai. Hell you can even rep AK!

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r ai reps stronger then ak bc AK is a weird flop bet/call.


[/ QUOTE ]


in a lot of ways, calling the flop with AK is better than 77. krantz either has a big hand or air. so 77 is no different than AK in terms of showdown value. but krantz can have KK-JJ, leaving us with more outs. he can also use an A or K as a bluffing card, which he won't expect us to have hit. there's a chance that he has KQ or something and we stack him if he hits a K. and when we have 77, he almost always has 6 outs plus runner-runner counterfeit outs. with AK, he will often have only 3 outs

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, in the philosophic sense AK is better then 77. however, if krantz has say 5x, 77 is >>> AK. also, i dont know why you think krantz needs air to trips to raise the flop... this is an auto flop raise (for me) w/ any pair, really.

also, yes, he may use the K as a bluff card, but its NOT a scare card. you can NOT put him on a king, he either had you on the flop or he's following up his bluff. a straight card is mmuch scarier (like 8 on the turn)

[Josh.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good time to crai. Hell you can even rep AK!

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r ai reps stronger then ak bc AK is a weird flop bet/call.


[/ QUOTE ]


in a lot of ways, calling the flop with AK is better than 77. krantz either has a big hand or air. so 77 is no different than AK in terms of showdown value. but krantz can have KK-JJ, leaving us with more outs. he can also use an A or K as a bluffing card, which he won't expect us to have hit. there's a chance that he has KQ or something and we stack him if he hits a K. and when we have 77, he almost always has 6 outs plus runner-runner counterfeit outs. with AK, he will often have only 3 outs

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, in the philosophic sense AK is better then 77. however, if krantz has say 5x, 77 is >>> AK. also, i dont know why you think krantz needs air to trips to raise the flop... this is an auto flop raise (for me) w/ any pair, really.

also, yes, he may use the K as a bluff card, but its NOT a scare card. you can NOT put him on a king, he either had you on the flop or he's following up his bluff. a straight card is mmuch scarier (like 8 on the turn)

[/ QUOTE ]


your first paragraph confuses me. why raise this flop with a 5, 66, or 88? what does that accomplish? are you committing your stack with these hands? i must not be understanding because in my mind, raising the flop with 66 or A5 is terrible

yeah the K isn't really a scare card. well it's not one of those "official" scare cards where both players know it's a scare card. the reason i think he might have a K is because smaller cards might either (1) 3-bet preflop, or (2) not raise that flop since he has few or no outs. whereas a hand like KQ or KJ has the added benefit of having those 6 outs vs 77. not a big deal really

anyway i just posted the AK > 77 thing because i found it interesting. i know there are spots when shovign AK > shoving 77, but this is kind of the reverse, and it still holds true

[TheWorstPlayer]

if im continuing with the hand, i'm probably c/r'ing the turn ai. even T8 has a TON of outs against you and he probably will give up on the river, so you gain nothing by flat calling if you're going to call a river push. I dont really know how you're playing these days. If I were playing him, I would instafold. Because he knows I'm a calling station and a maniac so he knows the chances of my c/r'ing the turn are a LOT larger than my chances of folding... but that is very player specific.

[aejones]

i just keep thinking how hard this hand is to answer without us being part of the history, but i think there's some good discussion going on about his ranges, etc. gosh this is a weird spot, soemtimes i will auto felt this or even 3bet the flop if i think he thinks i'll do it strictly as a bluff and look me up with a 5... but i can't say i do that often.