What Does Mrs. ep Have, and What Does Mrs. ep Need to Call? FT 100

[BarryLyndon]

Interesting how the advice changed when EPdraws announced h is trick?

On hand one, If I had AA-1010, I would make a crying call. Unless we have a little more history, hand 1 is an over push. 1010 would be very, very tough, JJ not so much so, QQ-AA easier.

The pot isn't big enough for this push and something seems a little "fishy." The other thing is that on hand one, there aren't enough draws out there to scare me into thinking that I'm still racing a whole bunch at best (e.g., 10 9c Jc and I think that she has 10c8c or JQ against my AA).

On hand two, any good player should be able to make a lay down. The pot was built up appropriately to represent a set trying to protect against As or Ks or the made flush trying to protect/get it all in against a big hand (like AK). That this player was a tight 2p2er is even more evidence that this is a good bluff.

I think, in general, Ms. EP should be proud of both plays, as they show a willingness to experiment / play deceptive poker. But, her move on hand1 shows a propensity to be a little too LAGGY and may be a sign of her not fully understand which flops are more EV for bluffing than others. I have that problem too, as does most non-successful LAGs (that's not to say she won't be successful).

Barry.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
And remember, these were not two random donks. These were players whom my wife knew to be 2p2ers, and every person who responded in this thread said they would fold with the hands that Villains held here.


[/ QUOTE ]
At the same time TT shouldn't raise the flop imo. And I'm definately not taking a bet/fold line with AsK/AxKs on the turn in hand 2, so I probably check that hand on the turn because getting c/red would blow. Another important factor is how the 2p2ers perceives mrs ep, if she's laggy as you say it's just not good to push in either of these hands.

That being said I don't hate these hands. I like hand 1 better than hand 2 since in hand two if you get called by AA-TT you'll have 9 outs over 2 streets. But then again I bet/fold a lot of AK/AJ non spade hands on the turn in the other hand so a c/r there would probably be nice against me.

You're correct both pushes are +EV, at the same time calling is +EV in both hands.

[ValarMorghulis]

AJ hand.
Just c/call on turn. You might be ahead. If you're not ahead you definitely have outs. Unimproved just c/fold the river. Villain isn't firing 3 barrels with something that you beat.

97
c/call flop. You are ahead of villain's range. Turn, probably c/fold unimproved.

I guess these lines are passive, and if you have a draw with no top pair, I'm more inclined to be aggressive, but I don't like pissing all over the showdown value of the top pair part of my hand just because of the draw part of my hand. Because with these hands if the pot stays small then I probably win if the draw doesn't hit and I can still try and get value when the draw does hit. But once the pot gets big my hand has no showdown.

BTW on the flop check, DJ Sensai recently had a thread in MSNL where he pointed out a situation like this and said this is a spot where we normally bet but maybe we should check.

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
Another important factor is how the 2p2ers perceives mrs ep, if she's laggy as you say it's just not good to push in either of these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I should point out that I don't think she's LAGgy at all! She's been working for months on not being too weak-tight, in fact. These plays were out of character, I think, but I don't review her entire sessions!

[ChooseJif]

Is she ever shoving like this with made hands? Especially hand 1, does she shove a set or a flopped straight here often heads up and with a relatively small pot?

I don't like either call much, but if she had been making a lot of moves I could see her getting looked up. Especially hand 1. Shoving here looks more like what it was (a pair + draw) than a flopped straight or a set.

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
Is she ever shoving like this with made hands? Especially hand 1, does she shove a set or a flopped straight here often heads up and with a relatively small pot?

I don't like either call much, but if she had been making a lot of moves I could see her getting looked up. Especially hand 1. Shoving here looks more like what it was (a pair + draw) than a flopped straight or a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

She doesn't make moves like this often, but apparently she's getting more bold!

On hand one, that's a valid critique. Would she shove a set over that weak flop raise? I don't know. She very well might, because she hates anything drawy.

[ChooseJif]

[ QUOTE ]

On hand one, that's a valid critique. Would she shove a set over that weak flop raise? I don't know. She very well might, because she hates anything drawy.

[/ QUOTE ]

But would she put him a hand that would have a real draw here? Probably not and a thinking villan would take that into consideration. Still not sure how often I'd call with 10s though if I were villan.

[epdaws]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

On hand one, that's a valid critique. Would she shove a set over that weak flop raise? I don't know. She very well might, because she hates anything drawy.

[/ QUOTE ]

But would she put him a hand that would have a real draw here? Probably not and a thinking villan would take that into consideration. Still not sure how often I'd call with 10s though if I were villan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, keep in mind that Villain is raising ATC in that spot.

[PBJaxx]

*Grunch*

Hand 1: Looks like villain has a set here. There aren't any legit "big" combo draws. Considering the preflop action, a set is most likely, but 56s for 2pair is possible, along with 77, 88, or TT. I need at least a set here to call. With a read that villain overplays overpairs, TP, etc, I can find a call with 2 pair or a big overpair, QQ+. Without that read, fold all but sets+.

Hand 2: This could be a fair amount of hands from villain here. Could be 2 broadways for a gutshot+FD, but from an 18/11/2 villain, a big ace, AQ, set are more likely. I find a call with a set+, AQ, AsKx. I don't like AxKs nearly as much because it is more likely that villain is either freerolling or has us completely crushed, so I would find a fold.

I will read other responses now, and come back to comment again.

[carrotsnake]

Honestly - hand 2 is horrible is she's trying to rep a flush. Exactly what two cards is she trying to rep by raising pre, then c/c'ing that flop that make a flush, only ones I can think of are something like maybe TJss or 98ss, but why the heck does she check those on the flop. Makes very little sense. She obviously can't have the Ks, so AK doesn't make sense, AQ usually bets flop, sets don't give free cards on that flop, 57ss def bets the flop. Her play is unfortunately just very transparent as a "I tried to get tricky on the flop with a middling hand and then realized I might have the best hand on the turn and had no idea what exactly to do so I shoved" kinda thing. Also could just beat a random Asx hand, that makes a lil sense.

As for hand 1- the only thing I can say is that against other 2p2ers, people's calling ranges and stuff go way out the roof. Fwiw, if the guy knows your 2p2 and vice versa and all that stuff, when he raises the flop lead, he's in general saying he's calling a shove with an overpair because he knows you can shove with just a draw, yada-yada. Not saying the play isn't correct, but that is just something very common that happens.