coming to know the world

[Mr. 3173]

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know your mind and you'll know the world.

-anonymous

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Pretty interesting and true. I mean what really matters. The "world" is ever changing and you could never really "know" it. Plus, one day you are going to die and everything you "learned" about the "world" will not matter.

Do what you enjoy and enjoy what you do. If you can't (due to monatary reasons) then I would suggest taking drugs.

[small rage]

[censored] all these nerdy nerds with their school. Have you ever had sex on cocaine?

[Georgia Avenue]

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Sweet jesus, this seems like entirely backwards. I'll agree that a slight grounding in philosophy of science and epistemology would probably suit him well, but to say that you have no sense what the calculations and measurements mean after four years of studying science seems pretty out there. After reading Wittgenstein and Heidegger, do you have a better insight into the "real meaning" of quantum mechanics? EDIT: QM is too stereotypical. Some more down to earth examples: genetics, geology, electronics, etc.

Spending forever trying to figure out all the intricacies of what it takes to really know something is a pretty good way to keep yourself from ever finding out - "if you have to ask, you'll never have time to know." Of the limited amount of philosophy I've read, this is why I'm such a big fan of Hume. He seems to pretty much come to the conclusion that "Yep, it's impossible to know anything with the same certainty as deductive proof. But [censored] it, it all works anyway," which seems to me like the working attitude that most scientists should have.



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Gump, I don't really disagree, I was just trying to answer his first question:[ QUOTE ]
what does it mean to know the world?

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It sounds like your answer is that studying math and science is how you do that, but I'm not sure Mr. Blue is under that assumption yet. If so, lala, my mistake...if not, he will NOT find the answer to that question in regular math and science courses.

I would agree with this:
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to say that you have no sense what the calculations and measurements mean after four years of studying science seems pretty out there

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Definitely, you will understand a lot about the scientific view of the world. But why is that best view, if it is? Epistemology tries to answer this question. Hume is certainly a beginning to this study, but if you're serious about discovering the answer there is a lot mpre that builds on what he had to say in different directions.

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"Yep, it's impossible to know anything with the same certainty as deductive proof. But [censored] it, it all works anyway," which seems to me like the working attitude that most scientists should have.

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Again, yeah, but it's not like questioning the foundation for belief in scientific evidence is going to POOF magic away its reality...plenty of scientists don't think about it, but some do, probably the best ones. Don't you think its kinda silly for people to disparage the study of philosophy, as if the position of "Physical Science is the conduit to truth" is NOT a philosophical one, but just self-evident?


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After reading Wittgenstein and Heidegger, do you have a better insight into the "real meaning" of quantum mechanics?

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Yes.

[kidcolin]

Ja,

Here are my thoughts. I think setting out and planning to "know the world" is a bit contrived, and could lead to you feeling pretty empty in the end. Sorry, I sound like a dick, and I don't mean to. What I mean is, make sure you're pursuing things you actually find interesting, not things you might think will give you some deep understanding of the world.

Degen said to travel. Traveling is great. I enjoy it myself. But it's not for everyone, and I think it's BS when people say you MUST travel to truly experience life. I just don't buy it.

Same can go for anything. The point is: experiment a little, find out what you enjoy, and stick to that. If you're finding that you aren't enjoying one of these pursuits, don't convince yourself it's necessary. (note: I'm not saying you should drop anything that involves a little struggle. I just mean, if you find calculus boring after getting a basic understanding of it, it likely isn't worth your time. For me, I like math/physics stuff, but every time I try to get deeper into literature, I get bored and don't enjoy it.)

I remember in high school, I spent a lot of time just thinking to myself. Asking myself questions. What drives this person? What drives me? Why do people interact in such and such a way? I'd try my best to answer them and prove to myself the answer was correct. I wasn't necessarily the smartest or most cultured kid, but I'm pretty confident I exited high school more grounded and with a better sense of self than most the people I knew. Get to know yourself and the rest kind of follows.

[gumpzilla]

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Again, yeah, but it's not like questioning the foundation for belief in scientific evidence is going to POOF magic away its reality...plenty of scientists don't think about it, but some do, probably the best ones. Don't you think its kinda silly for people to disparage the study of philosophy, as if the position of "Physical Science is the conduit to truth" is NOT a philosophical one, but just self-evident?

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I don't think I would say "physical science is the conduit to truth." I do not in my previous post; if you read on, you'll see that at the end my final response to him is that the most significant knowledge about the world has nothing to do with that at all.

Back to the discussion at hand, I agree the statement "physical science is the conduit to truth" is non-obvious and would need to be debated. (This debate itself seems to presuppose that there exists any means for approaching the truth, otherwise why should anything we come up with be taken to be true, but hey, that's a separate story.) However, the statement "physical science is a conduit to truth" is pretty hard to resist in the face of considerable evidence in favor of that proposition.

Thinking about it a bit more, one could perhaps argue I believe something stronger. I got into a lengthy argument with a guy at a party about alternative medicine. I was saying that I accepted that alternative medicine might work, but that if it does work, then one should be able to produce some statistical evidence that it does work, whereas my Western worldview was just a total bummer to him. The main area where I think rationality tends to be a bit overrated is in ethics, because I find almost all attempts at reducing ethical behavior to an axiomatic formal system vaguely repellent in at least some of their predictions.

[Aloysius]

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Back to the OP - your goal is a pretty standard one for 18 year old kids, and some people keep it longer. Most people eventually make the concession that there's so much [censored] out there that the chances of knowing it all is zero, and pick something to specialize in. Cast a broad net, find what you like, and go for it. While career concerns shouldn't dominate everything, don't forget about them, either.

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Think this is very true and solid advice.

WRT Jablue's questions... I think the most is gained from our personal relationships and other experiences. Traveling is a great suggestion.

For classes - in undergrad I double-majored in English (focus on Literary Criticism, so I read alot of Foucault, Derrida etc.) and Economics (just the general major, no real emphasis on anything).

I would say that I liked having the balance between humanities and "science" (it's not Physics like with Daryn, which I think is better and looking back I might've done Physics or Chemistry instead, but there is an empirical / quant component to Economics and a nice psychological / sociology element that I also enjoyed).

While I enjoyed reading lit crit / philosophy, and it helped shaped my thinking to an extent, there is alot of mental masturbation in the humanities, especially at the undergraduate level. Maybe "over-thinking" is a better term.

I would (for class course balance) weight more heavily towards sciences / economics if I had to do it again.

-Al

[kidcolin]

"While I enjoyed reading lit crit / philosophy, and it helped shaped my thinking to an extent, there is alot of mental masturbation in the humanities, especially at the undergraduate level. Maybe "over-thinking" is a better term."

I like this, though I might just be biased because I'm better at math/science (or am I better because I like it more?) I find while I might enjoy reading some stuff, I can tell my brain is really clicking when I'm delving into math/science texts or analytically solving problems.

Ja, you're in college, and hopefully enjoying it. If you are, I think a lot of this stuff will come pretty naturally. The real challenge for me has been keeping myself engaged and learning now that I've graduated.

[Triumph36]

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Did you actually read the Tractatus, GA? Be honest.

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Datchev precept on Wittgenstein vs Foucalt ftw.
I also never missed a seminar, so uh, yeah, pwnd.

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Datchev is a god among men - easily my favorite tutor.

I still have no idea what 'know the world' means - maybe I'm an idiot, but I feel like it's a phrase without content, esp since some people are saying travel and others are saying read Wittgenstein - they're about polar opposites, and in between you have the rest of life. Moreover, since the experience should be personal, it should be self-directed - someone on a message board saying you should go see Machu Picchu holds absolutely no weight whatsoever unless you also have a desire to do this as well.

[JaBlue]

I almost never do something that I don't want to do - there's no way I would continue studying physics if I didn't really like it. But I do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I want to utilize the net casting strategy, I just don't know how to start with what to cast it over. And I think that because "understanding the world" is my goal, I will enjoy the vast majority of the things I do in that effort.

As an aside, Physics for Physics Majors was offered this quarter and because of my standing I couldn't get in. So I have to wait till next year. What's some stuff I can do in the meantime? I'll probably end up just checking out MIT OCW and maybe buying a textbook or something.

edit: just so you guys know here is my current course schedule. it rocks:

metaphysics
intro to modern philosophy
calc II (wish I could take more but everything has calc prereq. feel stupid for stopping math in 10th grade)
music for music majors
guitar lessons

[kidcolin]

music theory I assume? Those were my favorite electives I took (I had very limited options because engineering is retarded). I actually learned a lot.