20/40 Commerce, a fine point on straddling.

[riverboatking]

let me ask you a hypothetical question.
if you had a set or even K9 suited in this spot and you're the villian are you pushing the flop in position?
or are you going to make a crying call and let your opponent lead into you on the turn?
come now its not as if the board is going to get scary on the turn, this is the PERFECT SPOT to just call in position if you are trying to stack an opponent.

a push makes absolutely no sense in this spot for any hand whatsoever and generally when things make no sense you should call as its a sign of desperation.

you say he played his hand extrememely well, i think you are giving him too much credit.
after all how does it make sense the way the action went down?
what hand is he trying to represent?
forget the fact that you folded, because no one in that game is folding there with any regularity so if he is making this play vs. anyone but you its straight spewing.

is he going to push AK here after a bet a raise and a reraise from the straddle on a drawless board?
of course not.

and like i said if he has a set this is the spot to just call and let you bomb the turn, which you will with two pair.

[fsuplayer]

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He showed 2,3o for an extremely well played hand, imo.

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Minus the whole pf thing

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if u can play this well postflop, does pf (a limp, mind you) matter much at all?

[TheWorstPlayer]

um..yes, because this is a huge spew postflop and he should have been stacked? preflop is gross, too.

[cts]

Good post rbk.

[cero_z]

Hi rbk,

I agree that from a cards and action only perspective, his hand doesn't look that strong, but you're leaving out the live read component. Kirkrr was obviously not proud of his hand, as evidenced by the comment that he'll hate a lot of turn cards. The guy seemed to be a good LAG. More likely than that he decided to spew off all of his chips with 32o, he was reading well, and knew there was no way in hell Kirkrr was calling a shove.

I think this is taking things a little far with 32o, but if you're reading well, and others aren't reading you well, this play makes sense. Similarly, if you know you're opponent thinks his hand is strong (say a different player in that game holding K3), and you have 33, shoving would make sense.

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi rbk,

I agree that from a cards and action only perspective, his hand doesn't look that strong, but you're leaving out the live read component. Kirkrr was obviously not proud of his hand, as evidenced by the comment that he'll hate a lot of turn cards. The guy seemed to be a good LAG. More likely than that he decided to spew off all of his chips with 32o, he was reading well, and knew there was no way in hell Kirkrr was calling a shove.

I think this is taking things a little far with 32o, but if you're reading well, and others aren't reading you well, this play makes sense. Similarly, if you know you're opponent thinks his hand is strong (say a different player in that game holding K3), and you have 33, shoving would make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

the point is i don't see how shoving here can ever be more profitable the calling since he has position.

if hero has a hand then he'll lead the turn, and if he's squeezing you're more likely to make more money by letting him fire again on the turn as he's never going to bluff call you with his squeeze holding, however he may fire one more barrel if you just call.

yes many good players will give up on their squeeze play if you smooth call the raise however you're not losing anything because they weren't going to call your push anyway.

of course if hero has a live read on villian then folding can never be wrong, because when you play live thats really what you have to trust and even if you make a misread its unimportant as you have to be able to have faith in your reads and go with them.

however no one on a fourm can give advice based on a read...and from an objective review of the action the only thing that makes sense in this spot is to call.

[AZK]

wait a minute, can you repost action? when did you fold this? turn? flop shove? what? Eitherway, unless the turn was a 9 or something excuse me while i throw up in my mouth.

[riverboatking]

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wait a minute, can you repost action? when did you fold this? turn? flop shove? what? Eitherway, unless the turn was a 9 or something excuse me while i throw up in my mouth.




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all went down on flop.


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Anyhow, I took about 7 seconds and made it 1600 even. EP guy quickly folded. Villain took 7 seconds more to weigh his options and pushed all in, 3200 back to me. Now what? Do we hate the flop check-raise?

Kirk


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ps. kirk can you give a physical description of the villian.
was this by any chance a young white guy with a shaved head and headphones?

[AZK]

wow i cant believe you folded this? what do you think he is playing like this?

[BobboFitos]

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wow i cant believe you folded this? what do you think he is playing like this?

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lol ari. read the thread. then make these posts ;p