1/2 NL

[MVPSPORTS]

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As a general question to more experienced live players, is it generally better to check the turn (pot control) after firing on the flop w/ TPTK, or is it better to continue betting (I want to stack someone who's willing to go broke w/ TPNK, flush draw, etc.)? I'm going to guess this depends heavily on your relative position, stack sizes, and opponent tendencies (make some assumptions for me here).

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As a general answer, it depends... To someone who you've seen calldown w/ TPNK on numerous occasions before, I'd jam like a mofo and pray his [censored] kicker doesn't 2pr ya... Also, a LOT of these types of players are more CS than anything else, and you can tell they have a monster when they start raising a lot... Trickier/better players, checking behind for pot control is fine...

[usaftrevor]

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I agree with MVPSPORTS's observation that players will call a preflop raise and then refuse to release a dominated TPNK hand if they connect on the flop. I've seen players gladly go broke with one pair in both raised and unraised pots.

As a general question to more experienced live players, is it generally better to check the turn (pot control) after firing on the flop w/ TPTK, or is it better to continue betting (I want to stack someone who's willing to go broke w/ TPNK, flush draw, etc.)? I'm going to guess this depends heavily on your relative position, stack sizes, and opponent tendencies (make some assumptions for me here).

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You nailed it. Other key factor is size of the pot vs size of your stack and opponent's stack. Are you able to make a bet that will allow you and/or your opponent to fold on the river?

Example, you have TPTK on a draw heavy board, say, A89, two spades. Five people to the flop for $12, you're betting probably $30 to $45 on this flop. Two callers... now the pot is roughly $150 to $195ish...

And the turn is an offsuit tre.

Blank city. But you don't want to give a free card. You've got $250 in front, your opponents have anywhere in the neighborhood of $70 to $600 in front...

Even if you just bet half-pot, say $75 or $100 and get only one caller, the pot will now be $300 to $400 going to the river. What do you do if the river brings the flush or straight? If you opponent has less than $100 behind, are you going to call?

Checking the turn is rarely a good idea, unless you're fairly certain someone check-called the flop hoping to check-raise the turn with a hand that beats TPTK, or has TPTK drawing deadski on the turn.

It's all situational, live and learn.

27 sentences later, I don't think I said a damned thing worth reading... ah well, it was fun to type it out.

[pyedog]

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1) Limping almost all of my "unplayable" hands if I didn't think that it would get raised. This was true from all positions but I was slightly more likely to fold the worst garbage from early position than from late position.
2) Raising almost all unraised pots from mid to late position with the top 50% of my hands. My typical raise amount was anywhere from $7 to $12 depending on my mood and table conditions.


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Good post. I do have a question however, for you or for anyone else who plays a LAG NL style.

When people say that they play almost any hand, does that include all of the high card/ low card split offsuit crap as well? Like K4o, J6o, Q2o, etc. I'm not sure what percentage of hands this makes up.

Personally I play 6max NL online, bascially TAG, and I tend to stay away from those hands altogether. I will raise low suited semi connectors like 75s, etc, but I just don't see how I could play K2o profitably, even against weak players

Negreanu also brags about how at the WSOP he was playing 90% of hands and thought that was a profitable strategy. Can that really be a viable way to play against semi-competent players such as in a 10K event at a 9 handed table? It just seems absurd to me.

I know that I didn't really state a question, but I'm just wondering when you limp T3o in MP what you're plan would be on the flop in a multiway pot. And does anyone else agree that that hand wouldn't show a long term profit even in a loose passive 1-2NL game? Or am I just missing something?

[AlienBoy]

Well, Negreanu didn't win, did he? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


I really do like Negreanu's play - he and Farha are my two favorites - though if you look at Jaime Gold - at least the stuff ESPN showed - his post flop play was tighter, and he destroyed the main event. DESTROYED. Made everyone else look like fish.


When people say "Good LAG" to me that means loose PF requirements, but sharp, tight, aggressive post flop play.

I've watched Negreanu get *hammered* post flop - he can get stuck with a hand and not make really tough lay downs. If you are playing LAG that necessarily means that you're going to have to lay down some tough hands.

But overall, in a cash game, if you can get in for just a limp then "any two" open up a world of possibilities.

Nevertheless, I'm still not playing 84o even on the button.

But on the button in a NL cash game, IMO you can play when limped to you:

Any two paint, All suited aces, All offsuit aces down to A9 or even A7 in some cases, many suited kings, any two suited connectors 54 and up (no lower than T6 with gaps), all pocket pairs, and in some cases offsuit connectors down to T9, sometimes 89 if you're daring.

That's ALOT of hands. If limped to you, many are worth a standard raise on the button. Nevertheless, you need to tighten up substantially as you move away from the button.

In NL, flop is where it's at. Once you're there on the button you have a wealth of opportunities.

I consider myself LAG - but I don't really play crap like Q2o unless I'm on tilt. And I don't think Negreanu does either, except perhaps for rare cases for deception.


AB

[AlienBoy]

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but I'm just wondering when you limp T3o in MP what you're plan would be on the flop in a multiway pot. And does anyone else agree that that hand wouldn't show a long term profit even in a loose passive 1-2NL game? Or am I just missing something?

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T3o in not in my vocabulary!.

If I did play this, the plan on the flop would totally depend on the flop itself.

Mid position with Flop of

AQ6: check

T62: Bet 2/3 pot to full pot

TJ3: Bet 1/3 to 1/2 pot. Or push.


Or... your mileage may vary.

It depends on so many factors, that you can *not* reduce this to an "ABC" action like you can with limit.


LAG and LIMIT is very hard. LAG and NL is also hard, but much better EV.

This is why most limit pros play under 20 VPIP. A 35% to 40% Vpip in limit is probably disastrous, (in limit, I think 25-28% is considered "loose") but 35 to 40 in NL can rock if you read well and are nimble post flop.


All lIMO.



AB

[Rottersod]

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Rottersod:

I think the reason you might not see many $50 pots pf is the min/max differences in LA vs other places that are $60-$300 buy-in for $1/$2 NL.

In AC Cardrooms it's not uncommon for it to go $12 pf five way action to the flop ATLEAST 30% of the hands / orbit.

It all depends on how bad everyone feels like playing that day... but it's still pretty easy.

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1/2 blinds for a $60 - $300? Where do I sign up? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Dominic]

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One other thing that I should mention is that at the $1/2 NL level, most players have no clue about how much to bet after the flop. They typically make tiny bets, like $5 or $10 into a $50 pot.

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I doubt that 1/2 games have that many $50 pots pre flop.

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they do in Vegas

[flavio321]

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Rottersod:

I think the reason you might not see many $50 pots pf is the min/max differences in LA vs other places that are $60-$300 buy-in for $1/$2 NL.

In AC Cardrooms it's not uncommon for it to go $12 pf five way action to the flop ATLEAST 30% of the hands / orbit.

It all depends on how bad everyone feels like playing that day... but it's still pretty easy.

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1/2 blinds for a $60 - $300? Where do I sign up? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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that's how it is here in east coast. how is it in cali/vegas?

[Rottersod]

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Rottersod:

I think the reason you might not see many $50 pots pf is the min/max differences in LA vs other places that are $60-$300 buy-in for $1/$2 NL.

In AC Cardrooms it's not uncommon for it to go $12 pf five way action to the flop ATLEAST 30% of the hands / orbit.

It all depends on how bad everyone feels like playing that day... but it's still pretty easy.

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1/2 blinds for a $60 - $300? Where do I sign up? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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that's how it is here in east coast. how is it in cali/vegas?

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Here in Los Angeles it is 1/2 for the $80 and under games. Fixed buy ins.

[SA125]

1/2 NL is the hell of hells. Instead of max buying in there for 200-300, you're better off buying in short to 2-5 with the same amount and playing short stack AI poker.