Great QB's POLL

[rwperu34]

[ QUOTE ]
Their leading WRs were Mark Jackson and Steve Watson. If you're asking "Who?" then you're not alone.


[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot about Vance Johnson. Together they had the nickname of, "My Three Sons" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[rwperu34]

Another thing I find interesting is the lack of attention Brett Favre gets for Best QB Ever. His stats are in line with Marino, he's played on equally crappy teams throughout his carrer (ie he was the focal point of the team) and Favre also won a Super Bowl.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]

to completely ignore championships won is as folly as awarding greatness b/c of championships won.


[/ QUOTE ]

I vote Brady because of the championship thing. If Manning won a couple I guess it would have to be him. What would really confuse me is if Manning wins a Super Bowl when he's a bit washed up.

[Propertarian]

Excellent. The 2+2 posters who pay attention to football are intelligent as well.

[Richard Tanner]

[ QUOTE ]
probably b/c when people say "game manager" they are usually referring to someone who is not asked to lead his team, make big plays, not be the center of his offense, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, well those people are misinformed/idiots, agreed?

[ QUOTE ]
look, I don't want to drag this down into another Brady/Manning debate. I'm happy to have Brady, I'm sure you're happy to have Manning, and I'm fine with calling them both historically great QB's, neither of whom have flawless resumes or stats. And neither does anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've pretty much nailed it here. One thing I would say is that perhaps a good way to discribe it would be to say that more people might pick Manning, but those same people, hopefully, would pick those years Pats over those years Colts. Football is, after all, a team game (although in this thread that's a little off topic).

Cody

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In Dan Marino's SECOND YEAR IN THE LEAGUE he threw for 5084 yards, which is about 500 yards greater than Manning's best season ever. He threw for 48 TDs. Manning once threw for 49, but other than that Manning has only once broken even 30(he got 33 once). Marino followed up this season with 30 TD year and then with a crazy 44 TD year. Oh, and yeah....he took them to the Super Bowl that year.


Look I have nothing against Peyton Manning, although it probably seems like I hate the guy since I'm always arguing against him. But I just think that many people here go way overboard regarding him. He is definitely in the discussion among all time greats, but he has his flaws for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the people that "go too far" (i.e. Me) do so because of the things that don't show up in the stats column. His ability to read defences. No one would consider it because they didn't win a title, but the Colts offence of the 2003-2005 seasons might have been the best of all time. Peyton is able (much of the time) to move the ball at will. If his numbers are down it's because teams are content to take away the deep ball and run nickel and dime coverages all game. Another fun stat is interceptions, this year he's thrown 2 passes to defenders, 6 others were tipped away, or droped, from his receivers.
It's not his stats entirely that make me want to watch him/root for him, but also his mental abilities.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]I agree with a lot of what you said, although I think you'll have to agree that Manning has seemed outmatched when he has tried to match his "mental abilities" against the Patriots coaching staff.

[Richard Tanner]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In Dan Marino's SECOND YEAR IN THE LEAGUE he threw for 5084 yards, which is about 500 yards greater than Manning's best season ever. He threw for 48 TDs. Manning once threw for 49, but other than that Manning has only once broken even 30(he got 33 once). Marino followed up this season with 30 TD year and then with a crazy 44 TD year. Oh, and yeah....he took them to the Super Bowl that year.


Look I have nothing against Peyton Manning, although it probably seems like I hate the guy since I'm always arguing against him. But I just think that many people here go way overboard regarding him. He is definitely in the discussion among all time greats, but he has his flaws for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the people that "go too far" (i.e. Me) do so because of the things that don't show up in the stats column. His ability to read defences. No one would consider it because they didn't win a title, but the Colts offence of the 2003-2005 seasons might have been the best of all time. Peyton is able (much of the time) to move the ball at will. If his numbers are down it's because teams are content to take away the deep ball and run nickel and dime coverages all game. Another fun stat is interceptions, this year he's thrown 2 passes to defenders, 6 others were tipped away, or droped, from his receivers.
It's not his stats entirely that make me want to watch him/root for him, but also his mental abilities.

Cody

[/ QUOTE ]I agree with a lot of what you said, although I think you'll have to agree that Manning has seemed outmatched when he has tried to match his "mental abilities" against the Patriots coaching staff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excepting maybe the last two years, yeah he got his ass kicked, but then that's why they're coaches and he's a player. Could Tom Brady have outthought the Pats coaches if he played against them? I doubt it. That's not a condimnation of Brady but rather a pat on the back of Bill B. and Co.

Cody

[Assani Fisher]

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing I find interesting is the lack of attention Brett Favre gets for Best QB Ever. His stats are in line with Marino, he's played on equally crappy teams throughout his carrer (ie he was the focal point of the team) and Favre also won a Super Bowl.

[/ QUOTE ]The problem that I've always had with Favre is that while he has some games where he looks like the best ever, he also has had a few clunkers, even in big playoff games. Sure Brady, Montana, etc. had all had some bad games. But in their primes, I don't think you would ever say that "Joe Montana was the biggest reason that the 49ers lost today" or "The other Patriots played well, but that team was really dragged down by Brady today."

Yet there are definitely some games where Brett Favre was THE MAIN REASON why the Packers lost. Didn't he have a 6 interception game in the playoffs once? Also, while I love his enthusiasm and the "way he plays", Favre isn't always the smartest guy in the world. During MNF the other night he had the ball and his team needed a score. Instead of marching his team down the field and displaying poise, he through a tremendously high risk ball and was intercepted on the first play. That "all or nothing" mentality isn't really what I think of when I think of great QBs.

Also, in his only SB it is very arguable that the defense was actually better than the Green Bay offense: Offense was 1st in points scored, 5th in yards...defense was 1st in both stats.

I think that Brett Favre is in the second tier of all time great QBs. Certainly he has been a joy to watch and a great embassador for the game.

[SL__72]

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing I find interesting is the lack of attention Brett Favre gets for Best QB Ever. His stats are in line with Marino, he's played on equally crappy teams throughout his carrer (ie he was the focal point of the team) and Favre also won a Super Bowl.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think his recent years have made some people forget how great he once was. He also has always thrown a TON of picks.

[kidcolin]

[ QUOTE ]
Excepting maybe the last two years, yeah he got his ass kicked, but then that's why they're coaches and he's a player.

[/ QUOTE ]

In Manning's case, that line between player and coach is a little bit blurred. You can't praise him for his defense reading and play-calling at the line and then put it on Dungy and Co. when Manning looks lost and outclassed.