2 50/100 hands commerce

[LB_001]

I'd fold hand 1 on river, I think from his point of view you have an overpair and that weak turn bet is just trying to get you to stick around and he's bombing the river to try to get some value and maybe make it look like a bluff when you only have to call 1 more bet. Maybe it's an A5 or some gutshot bluffing but he'd have to call that on the flop with 2 players still to act and hit the perfect turn card to bluff so I'd just let him have it.

Hand 2 I kind of like just folding the turn, you don't have much invested and its really an ugly spot especiallly if UTG seems to like his hand and is still to act. If you call here you're really in a tough spot on the river as there's so many ugly cards and none that are really that great for your hand. I wouldn't mind raising normally and checking behind on the river if UTG didn't seem to like his hand so much.

Also sorry to nitpick but

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one thing to note about the game is that there is a mega fish in the game with a ton of money, who will pretty much call anything before the flop

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you really should raise more preflop I don't think utg or antonio are going to fold for 400 more here too often with the fish in the pot behind them. Getting it heads up or 3 handed with the fish would make this such a better situation.

[thabadguy]

Hand i, make turn 6k.
Hand 2 make flop 3k ish.
If you call flop in hand 2, make turn 5k or so.

[Moonshine]

if villain is a good tricky player as you say i think i like a call in hand 1 to be honest.

there's a chance he floated and tried to take the turn but i think it's more likely though that he has a hand like 66 or 44 and tried to take down the hand on the turn and fold out overcards. when you called i think it's pretty obvious from your line that you've got a hand like 99 or 77. if he's got 44 he knows he's not winning the pot at showdown and it's a great spot to bluff. i know i would if i was him

i think a ten hopes you have an overpair and makes a bigger bet for value on the turn. if he didnt have a smaller pp than you i think the only other logical read is that he rivered the boat with 88

so yea, call

[mperich]

I agree with ansky. C/R turn hand 1 is gross. I think riv is close, prolly a fold tho.

Hand 2 is a tricky one, need to think more altho I think turn is a fold at first glance.

-Mike

[cero_z]

Hi rbk,

Fold both hands.

Hand 1 is semi-tough on the river, but I like how you played it up to that point, and he made things fairly easy for you on the turn. I mean, it could be a very sophisticated bluff, since your hand is fairly well-defined, but he obviously doesn't put you on a missed draw any more (since he bet 5K).

Hand 2 I'd call the flop and fold the turn, given that I'm assuming you think Greg is fairly strong (hand or draw). Antonio leading a 2nd street is scary, when he knows you should either have 55, 66, or be absolutely loaded to call that flop after he leads into the field. He doesn't expect you to fold QQ here for 1600, I don't think, so you should bow out at this point. The uncertainty of Greg's hand makes it even easier to lay down. Also, now that I think of it, why would Antonio make a bet that prices in a draw, when Greg is very likely to have one? Antonio is super-strong here very often, I think.

[JooWish622]

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I think hand 1 is a fold, that line doesn't look much as a bluff imo, why would he bet that small on that great turn if he he had 46/floated you..I guess he could be bluffing with 66, but it seems remote. I think his most likely hand is 88. Think 88 is quite in line with the small turnbet as well. Your hand is quite face up though which of course could make him bluff, but the small turnbet/big riverbet combo doesn't look bluffy to me, looks like a turnbet that is just basically designed to fold out AK/AQ. Sure it could be like an induce for you to checkraise on when you have given up but I find that much less likely from a good tricky player, it's also a bet that is definitely scary to checkraise over, esp with these stacks which makes it even less likely.

In hand2 I either call or make it 2.5k straight.

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I like MDMA's analysis and here are just my two cents: your hand is pretty narrowly defined and unfortunately your hand seems to be whats below the profitable calling range on this river. I would probably call here with 99s or better.

I am not too sure what this small turn bet+ river combo is. It seems possible that he could have a hand like A5 or even like A4. A5 might make the play realizing he could possibly fold out 77+ which is what hes clearly losing to at the moment. Just some things to consider I guess.

But I guess A5 wouldnt make that turn bet...

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi rbk,

Fold both hands.

Hand 1 is semi-tough on the river, but I like how you played it up to that point, and he made things fairly easy for you on the turn. I mean, it could be a very sophisticated bluff, since your hand is fairly well-defined, but he obviously doesn't put you on a missed draw any more (since he bet 5K).

Hand 2 I'd call the flop and fold the turn, given that I'm assuming you think Greg is fairly strong (hand or draw). Antonio leading a 2nd street is scary, when he knows you should either have 55, 66, or be absolutely loaded to call that flop after he leads into the field. He doesn't expect you to fold QQ here for 1600, I don't think, so you should bow out at this point. The uncertainty of Greg's hand makes it even easier to lay down. Also, now that I think of it, why would Antonio make a bet that prices in a draw, when Greg is very likely to have one? Antonio is super-strong here very often, I think.

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FWIW, cero you nailed my thought process EXACTLY on both hands.
guys i hate when people post hands and then never post results, but i don't want to stifle discussion so why don't you guys let me know when you want results.

[hotmark777]

Hand 1: The problem with the way you played this hand is that if you determined that you were still ahead on the turn (by calling his bet) i dont see how you dont call the river. If i were you i would fold the turn, or call the river, although i do believe by the details you gave us you are beat (only two hands you beat are busted straight draw or a6)

Hand 2) I think the most important detail you mentioned was the guy who overcalled was breathing heavily. Either he is retarded, or he has a hand. It is in fact VERY rare to see a person NOT IN THE LEAD in the hand appearing nevous (by in the lead i mean in betting terms). You have to ask yourself why was he this nervous if he just called your preflop raise and called antonio's bet? My best guess is that he slowplayed a monster on the flop (set or nuts) and is simply afraid with too many players, and many draws in the pot his hand will go to ruins.

[NEWPPSNKTHX]

Hand 1 I think I would've dumped it on the turn. Your hand is almost face up here as 88+ and I don't think he is ever going to bet this turn and then not follow up on the river if he has you beat or not. Your hand may be good, but I don't think he's going to let you see a river for cheap if he can't beat 88. With that said I still think he has a ten here a high portion of the time. So IMO the turn is a fold.

Hand 2 is really interesting, I don't know why Antonius would bet that small on the turn with a big hand on that kind of board unless he was trying to induce a raise or see a cheap turn card. You can make a case for calling, raising, or folding IMO. You didn't really mention stack sizes for hand 2 which I think are really important, if you guys were like 20k deep to start the hand I like a 2.5x raise / fold to shove line. I'll just assume 100bbs though, in which case I'd call or fold I think. Actually I dunno, lol this is a very intriguing hand on so many levels. In Antonious's mind he probably doesn't put you on a very big hand when you just call the flop there, although I think you definitely would play a set or two pair for a flop call occasionally to see a safe turn card. I don't know really what the best play is, so I'll just spot rambling here.

The flop play is also interesting, I don't mind the call but I also think a raise here might be best to control the pot size and test the waters. I guess the problem lies in that Antonius could 3 bet the flop with a draw and effectively force us off the hand, but I think thats a chance we should consider taking to make the hand easier to play.

Also RBK, any plans on returning to the Bike? LATB misses you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[*Antti*]

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when you called i think it's pretty obvious from your line that you've got a hand like 99 or 77.

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Why is it so obvious? Would it be terrible to play overpair like this on turn? If so I´d like to know why.