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#21
11-24-2006, 12:31 AM
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Re: Consciousness and free will
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] What reason do I have to believe in free will? [/ QUOTE ] Big assumption right there. The assumption of a unified identity is allways present in the question of consciousness and free will. [/ QUOTE ] Are you saying that I can't declare a self-evident axiom (I am), or that there's no place for it in the scientific method? 
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#22
11-24-2006, 01:10 AM
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Re: Consciousness and free will
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Wouldnt he take exception to both the "I" and "me" in that statement? [/ QUOTE ] What a show-stopper. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure if that was some shot at me or if you don't know what a show-stopper is. [/ QUOTE ] No cheap shot intended. Someone's got to 'splain how I am not me or some such rhetorical bovine excrement.
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#23
11-24-2006, 02:29 AM
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Re: Consciousness and free will
arahant said:[ QUOTE ]
I've seen both consciousness and free will mentioned repeatedly in several recent threads related to theism, so i thought I'd solicit opinions. I'm sure, of course, that this has all been covered before, but i know y'all like to talk, so... I'm a materialist at heart. What reason do I have to believe in free will? What reason do I have to place some mystical significance in consciousness? To me, it's almost obvious both that traditional free will doesn't exist, and that consciousness is nothing special and certainly not in need of explanation ('mind is what brain does'). Are there any scientific or philosophical arguments that should lead me to believe otherwise? I assume peoples understanding of these things derives from their personal perceived experience,no? [/ QUOTE ] I am an atheist, naturalist, materialist, etc. It is self-evident that consciousness exists. I would be very interested to hear an explanation of consciousness, but I have never heard any thoroughly convincing explanation but I expect any explanation to be completely consistent with my atheism, naturalism, materialism, etc. I would not recognize anything inconsistent with those isms as being an explanation at all. An atheistic, naturalistic, materialistic explanation could certainly include utterly novel ideas though. I definitely believe that free will exists. If we had no free will, then we would be just helplessly and powerlessly watching reality unfold, with absolutely no control whatsoever over anything. I find that utterly ludicrous. I cannot absolutely prove that free will exists, but it is certainly obvious that it is pointless to not believe that free will exists.
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#24
11-24-2006, 07:16 AM
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psychohistory
I don't get how consciousness is still being debated. Any small investigation into swarm intelligence and neurophysiology reveals how consciousness arises in these purely materials things, like our complex brains. It's not a mystery people.
And as far as free will--well you will have natural tendencies and biases, most of which you will be unaware which leads to individual human free will, but on a larger more general scale I will be inclined to argue that Issac Asimov had the right idea with psychohistory---the science of predicting the (general) future based on the probabilities associated with human tendency (probability), even if an individual still posses free will.
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#25
11-24-2006, 12:50 PM
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Re: Consciousness and free will
[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying there's an invisible force compelling me to type these words? [/ QUOTE ] well what caused you to type those words? something outside of who you are, what you've learned/experienced, and any intervention from a higher power?
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#26
11-24-2006, 01:02 PM
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Re: Consciousness and free will
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Are you saying there's an invisible force compelling me to type these words? [/ QUOTE ] well what caused you to type those words? something outside of who you are, what you've learned/experienced, and any intervention from a higher power? [/ QUOTE ] Funny coincidence that you would post that just as I'm checking this thread. I, through my intention, caused myself to type those words. Conscious agency is not reducible to more elementary components.
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Linear Mode
