Poker Etiquette Question

[donking]

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"The dealers shall assist in the reading of hands."

Everyone that sits at a poker table has an obligation to police the game and see that the pot is pushed to the winner.


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I agree with Randy. What type of a game do you want it to be? I want it to be a game of ethics and for the following of the rules, like in golf. I think the football analogy is off since there is more "gamesmanship" regarding the rules/refs/umps/etc.

[pfapfap]

I agree it is apples and oranges, but I mean the comparison to football. As has been stated numerous times, tabled cards speak, and it keeps the game moving more quickly. Dealers make mistakes, and appreciate when a player points out a misread. And it's just bad ju-ju to let someone steal money like that. First they came for the fish and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a fish...

[Lestat]

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the dealers get paid to push the pot to the winning hand. Period.

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"The dealers shall assist in the reading of hands."

Everyone that sits at a poker table has an obligation to police the game and see that the pot is pushed to the winner.

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I agree with this Randy, but your response doesn't make the person you quoted any less correct. Dealers ARE paid to push the pot to the winning hand.

I understand your wanting to take pressure off your dealers, but in return for paying rake and toke, it's not unreasonable to expect a dealer to know how to do their job properly. And that entails knowing how to discern the winning hand.

[jjshabado]

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What you don't want to do is watch someone turn over a medium strength hand at showdown, and ask the remaining player(s) how they can't beat the tabled hand.


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Oh I agree. I'm a very easy going player at the table, but if I lost a pot because of that I'd be pretty [censored] annoyed. Words would be spoken.

[RR]

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the dealers get paid to push the pot to the winning hand. Period.

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"The dealers shall assist in the reading of hands."

Everyone that sits at a poker table has an obligation to police the game and see that the pot is pushed to the winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this Randy, but your response doesn't make the person you quoted any less correct. Dealers ARE paid to push the pot to the winning hand.

I understand your wanting to take pressure off your dealers, but in return for paying rake and toke, it's not unreasonable to expect a dealer to know how to do their job properly. And that entails knowing how to discern the winning hand.

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I am not really equipped to speculate about having dealers that can't determine the winning hand because I have never worked in such a place. Like anything else there is some acceptable error when it comes to reading hands.

Within the last month I pushed into the final table of a tournament. The two players involved got all the money in preflop. One player turned up 66 and the other player turned up AQ. I put down a flop of KKJ a 5 on the turn and then a J on the river. I psh up the KKJJ and read two pair with an ace kicker. Muck the 66. Push the pot in front of the AQ player and thenslide the AQ into the board and turn that face down. Now somebody says "what are you doing? she had a full house" gestering at the woman with the 66. I of course still had the winning cards because I hadn't mucked them yet. SO they were turned up wit reveal the winner's 66 and a board of KKJ5 and another K. Oops, I have read countless numbers of hands and somehow I just didn't see the cards right. In this case all the correct procedures were followed so it was simple to ship the pot to the rightful owner, but I don't think any reasonable person would suggest that have trouble determining the winner of a poker hand.

[jjshabado]

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the dealers get paid to push the pot to the winning hand. Period.

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"The dealers shall assist in the reading of hands."

Everyone that sits at a poker table has an obligation to police the game and see that the pot is pushed to the winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this Randy, but your response doesn't make the person you quoted any less correct. Dealers ARE paid to push the pot to the winning hand.

I understand your wanting to take pressure off your dealers, but in return for paying rake and toke, it's not unreasonable to expect a dealer to know how to do their job properly. And that entails knowing how to discern the winning hand.

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Meh, when you're dealing as much as they are they're bound to make a few mistakes. They're human. Why should their mistake cost one player a pot?

If a dealer forgot to take the rake out of a pot, I wouldn't remind them at all. But I'm not going to let another player get screwed because of the dealer's human mistake. That includes if I'm the one that would have benefitted from the mistake.

[slik]

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This is not an etiquette question; it's an ethics one. Either you withhold information, and passively allow a wrong to take place, or you correct a mistake, and restore order. When in doubt put yourself in their shoes, and the answer becomes obvious. I can live with a douche being pissed at me because I didn't allow him to steal a pot.

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I don't believe it is an ethical consideration. If you are playing a football game and your guy is running down the sidelines, scores a touchdown but you clearly saw that he stepped out of bounds would you tell the ref that your own teammate stepped out of bounds? Absolutely not and no one would fault you for not saying anything. The refs get paid to track that and the dealers get paid to push the pot to the winning hand. Period.

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Just because the majority will do one thing, doesn't make it right. It's not a question of who is at fault. If a mistake is being made, and you have the power to correct it, I believe it is your duty to do so. A better analogy would be a cashier accidentally giving the wrong amount of money to a different customer, and you see it, but you do nothing about it. Just cause one doesn't actively steal, it doesn't make passive stealing okay.

[Lestat]

I said I AGREED with what Randy said. I'm just pointing out that there's nothing wrong with grdred's quote:

"the dealers get paid to push the pot to the winning hand. Period."

This is true.

[Lestat]

I understand and I'm actually very tolerant of dealer mistakes, because I realize they are human. It just sounded to me like you were putting the onus on the players at the table to read the hands. I agree they should help on the rare occasion a dealer makes a mistake, but I also think such mistakes should be just that... Rare! It is part of the dealer's job to know which hand wins.

Unlike you, I often have to play in rooms where dealers too often can't read the board. Not due to a mistake, but because they haven't taken it upon themselves to learn the game. There's no excuse for that.

[RR]

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Unlike you, I often have to play in rooms where dealers too often can't read the board. Not due to a mistake, but because they haven't taken it upon themselves to learn the game. There's no excuse for that.


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There is no excuse for that, but there is also no incentive for the casino to improve if they have games with dealers that can't read hands.

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I understand and I'm actually very tolerant of dealer mistakes, because I realize they are human. It just sounded to me like you were putting the onus on the players at the table to read the hands. I agree they should help on the rare occasion a dealer makes a mistake, but I also think such mistakes should be just that... Rare! It is part of the dealer's job to know which hand wins.

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I do believe that ultimatel it falls on the players ot be certain the pot is being pushed the right way. Every place I have been involved with righting rules and procedures I have pushed for language that says "The dealer shall assist in the reading of hands." Of course the dealer should be able to read the hands, but ultimately it is the players' game and up to the players to make sure things are done correctly.