HonestHoldem Terms and Conditions

[JackOfSpeed]

Isn't this the guy that developed a bot?

[BiPolar_Nut]

Ray: they'd be sitting out until someone sat in. There'd be zero point in paying rake while waiting. This would also ensure a complete moron filling the seat since they didn't first observe the table before sitting nor think it was odd that 9 people suddenly sat in when they sat down.

[SweetPea]

You are probably correct in that sites cannot stop ALL of the things you say. You are definitely correct in that they can't stop ALL of them ALL of the time.

However, they do catch some, and that is a deterrent.

Your point seems to be that no site can run a 100% "fair" game, and I agree. However, as a player I'm much more likely to play at a 65% fair site rather than your 5% fair site.

[SweetPea]

Is your argument akin to the comment: "We can't stop all steroids in the NFL, therefore we should encourage them?"

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
Ray: they'd be sitting out until someone sat in. There'd be zero point in paying rake while waiting. This would also ensure a complete moron filling the seat since they didn't first observe the table before sitting nor think it was odd that 9 people suddenly sat in when they sat down.

[/ QUOTE ]

very good.

obviously you agree that paying rake amongst
your own hands is a bad thing for you.

assuming the site allowed you to occupy that
many chairs for any length of time (i.e. they
allowed sitouts as opposed to force posting)
ok so lets suppose that rake is guaranteed to
happen for any flop (i.e. even when just the sb
calls) and i'm the fishie in the 10th chair,
describe your overall strat. as the blinds
move around the table.

ray

[augie_]

Ray,

The possibility for cheating in online poker is something you just have to accept. Putting the burden of policing the games on the players is far too much to ask of casual players. Serious players already do it to an extent (I do for sure) but it might just be better for the fishies to never think cheating could be possible.

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
You are probably correct in that sites cannot stop ALL of the things you say. You are definitely correct in that they can't stop ALL of them ALL of the time.

However, they do catch some, and that is a deterrent.

Your point seems to be that no site can run a 100% "fair" game, and I agree. However, as a player I'm much more likely to play at a 65% fair site rather than your 5% fair site.

[/ QUOTE ]

sweet,

we're discussing whether or not the t&c in the original
post is honest and whether or not it forces the site in
question into the most neutral of all possible postures
while preserving the players divine right to persue self
interest to the maximum possible limits.

i'm not suggesting that it's the same playing field
as the live game.

but, i am suggesting that the field is indeed level
and that aside from not being able to prove
that the server didn't collude with any player,
the game is fair to all players. and above all
it's honest about the security issues.

it also must be said that the only way to cheat
this t&c is to engage in collusion with the house.
other than this it's impossible for any player to
cheat the game.

ray.

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
Ray,

The possibility for cheating in online poker is something you just have to accept. Putting the burden of policing the games on the players is far too much to ask of casual players. Serious players already do it to an extent (I do for sure) but it might just be better for the fishies to never think cheating could be possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

augie,

once again, thank you for being straightforward.
however, i must say that you're advocating the
overall current strategic policy - and that policy
is very close to criminal fraud when measured by
standards and practices in other industries.

if an internet site invites incoming players to
believe that the site has the power to control
the behavior of all opponents (when in fact they
have near zero ability to do this) then that is
fraud plain and simple.

you cant justify a non-forthcoming t&c just because
you're scared that players wont deposit otherwise.
if the online poker industry is such that it cant
get deposits and rake unless it lies to its customers
then it's not possible to prevent that industry
from total collapse. truth is always an excellent
business strategy.

this is one of the reasons why online holdem is
meeting resistance with regulation and the law.

ray

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
Is your argument akin to the comment: "We can't stop all steroids in the NFL, therefore we should encourage them?"

[/ QUOTE ]

not an accurate analogy
given that steroid use
is much easier to police
if the baseball industry
decides to do that.

aside from this, i wont
allow you to win an argument
about online holdem by demanding
that i have to win a steroids
argument first.

please stay on target here.

ray

[brendanb438]

Ray,

Go post this in BBV, they will be more open to discussion.

-Brendan