I Mean You Might As Well End It

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
Logically speaking, it would make no difference if you killed yourself right now.

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Logically speaking it would almost certainly make a difference. Logically placing some sort of value on that difference would require some valuative premises to work from. Logic can't provide meaning, not even if you're Christian.

The Christians on this forum have recently become fond of saying that because reason doesn't suggest that any one thing is "better" than another, everything must be considered equal from an atheist perspective. That makes about as much sense as saying that because a hammer can't be used to do arithmetic, an abacus is superior to a hammer. Logic is a tool, and it can't be used to ascribe values. That's not what it's good for. If you want me to do arithmetic, I'll pull out a calculator and then we'll talk about superiority.

If I've misinterpreted and you aren't trying to rag on atheists (sorry, we're getting a lot of this stuff lately), then... According to pure reason, it's no "better" to live than to die. However, reason must work according to some set of premises. You seem to include a number of loaded assumptions in your OP - what is the true implication of those assumptions? I don't believe that it's necessarily what you're suggesting.

At any rate, my assumptions about value are very different, and based on those assumptions a happy dream matters quite a bit, even if I don't remember it. My alarm woke me from an awful dream this morning, and I hope I don't have any similar dreams tonight - regardless of whether I remember them.

[samsonite2100]

[ QUOTE ]
What if I told you that last night while you slept, you had a dream? And in this dream, you were incredibly happy and fulfilled, and that for 8 hours, you were completely satisfied. But, when you woke up, you immediately forgot the dream, and won’t ever remember it. Now, with that said, do you really care if the dream was good or bad? Long or short? It is of no consequence to you now that you’re awake. You simply don’t care.

Now for arguments sake, let’s say that when you die, you cease to exist, and you feel nothing forever. When you die, life would have been like that dream you had last night. The dream that means nothing to you right now, because you can’t remember it and it has no relevance. When you cease to exist, it doesn’t matter if your life was fulfilling or not. You’re not going to care if you were content or depressed. It’s no different than waking up from a dream you can’t remember having.

So then why do people who believe that this is their fate, live their lives like they do? Going to work 8 hours a day 5 days a week, never taking holidays, watching sitcoms on television, and wasting their time reading crap on internet forums, not unlike this. Logically speaking, it would make no difference if you killed yourself right now. You would just wake up a little earlier from your pathetic dream that you wont remember anyway. You’re living a lie. You’re fooling yourself into thinking that there is meaning, and that things matter. Don’t tell me that you’re happy now and that’s all that matters. You’re not happy. I’ve seen you complaining about your wretched life, trying to change yourself, and better yourself. You’re dreaming right now, and your dream is not even pleasant, it’s a nightmare. I mean, you might as well just end it.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if last night you had a dream where you were totally happy and also believed that you would remember the dream forever? And then you woke up and didn't remember it. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Also, I'm not fooling myself into thinking there is meaning or that things matter. I think you're way off base in assuming that everyone has the same teleological belief system as Christians. I don't kill myself because my life brings me pleasure, not because I think it's worth a rat's hairy ass in some magical grand scheme.

[Lestat]

Just because I'm an atheist, doesn't mean I can't learn from a priest. I once heard the following story.

A reporter showed up to an elderly priest's home to do an interview and found the priest working in his garden. The reporter asked him, "What would you if you found out that tonight would be your last night on earth?". The priest responded, "Why I would continue working on my garden".

For some reason that story really made a terrific impression on me. What a perfect attitude! Does it really matter what your after-life beliefs are? So theists think they're going to a place called heaven when they die and atheists don't. One of them will be right. But what really matters is how we use our time before that moment while we're still here on earth.

[Mickey Brausch]

It's buy in either at the minimum or the maximum possible amount. But not in between.

Live your life either as if you were gonna die tomorrow, or as if you gonna live forever. But not in between.

[ QUOTE ]
A reporter showed up to an elderly priest's home to do an interview and found the priest working in his garden. The reporter asked him, "What would you if you found out that tonight would be your last night on earth?". The priest responded, "Why I would continue working on my garden".
<font color="white"> . </font>
For some reason that story really made a terrific impression on me. What a perfect attitude! Does it really matter what your after-life beliefs are? So theists think they're going to a place called heaven when they die and atheists don't. One of them will be right. But what really matters is how we use our time before that moment while we're still here on earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I could be like that.

Mickey Brausch

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
It's buy in either at the minimum or the maximum possible amount. But not in between.

Live your life either as if you were gonna die tomorrow, or as if you gonna live forever. But not in between.

[ QUOTE ]
A reporter showed up to an elderly priest's home to do an interview and found the priest working in his garden. The reporter asked him, "What would you if you found out that tonight would be your last night on earth?". The priest responded, "Why I would continue working on my garden".
<font color="white"> . </font>
For some reason that story really made a terrific impression on me. What a perfect attitude! Does it really matter what your after-life beliefs are? So theists think they're going to a place called heaven when they die and atheists don't. One of them will be right. But what really matters is how we use our time before that moment while we're still here on earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I could be like that.

Mickey Brausch

[/ QUOTE ]
You need to start by stoping all those maximising utility calculations. They are not the path to maximising happiness.

chez

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]

You need to start by stoping all those maximising utility calculations. They are not the path to maximising happiness.



[/ QUOTE ]Who's trying to maximize anything? We're just trying to get by.

[FortunaMaximus]

So that implies maximizing the utility with the minimum of effort that you need to get by.

All donks are asses and all women have beautiful asses. Or something.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
A reporter showed up to an elderly priest's home to do an interview and found the priest working in his garden. The reporter asked him, "What would you if you found out that tonight would be your last night on earth?". The priest responded, "Why I would continue working on my garden".

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, that priest has the right idea.

To the OP - what about the importance of the present moment? The only moment you really are alive is in the present moment. Yet many people live their entire lives obsessed with guilt (concern with past moments), or worry (concern with future moments).

Catholics hit the exacta: they wrack themselves with guilt about their past sins, then they torment themselves with worry about whether they will get into heaven when they die.

It is all a means of avoiding the present moment, which is all there really is.

The idea of our eventual non-existence is certainly not the most comforting, but there is no point in wasting your present moments worrying about it.

[Matt R.]

[ QUOTE ]
Catholics hit the exacta: they wrack themselves with guilt about their past sins, then they torment themselves with worry about whether they will get into heaven when they die.


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Holy crap, you got us. It's a good thing you said this about Catholics and didn't make a blanket statement about blacks or Hispanics. Otherwise you might get called a bigot. Good thing!

PS -- if you're actually curious, Catholic beliefs should have pretty much the exact opposite effect of what you said. Catholics should be able to let go of past sins because they are forgiven, and they should not worry about getting into heaven because the best they can do is live a good life (or follow Jesus' teachings, if you prefer). If they actually live like a Catholic should, there should be zero worry involved. I'm sorry some past experience completely distorted your view of Catholics, and that you project these feelings against this group onto all Catholics. Fighting bigotry with bigotry usually isn't the best strategy though.

[revots33]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry some past experience completely distorted your view of Catholics, and that you project these feelings against this group onto all Catholics. Fighting bigotry with bigotry usually isn't the best strategy though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I was a Catholic for over 30 years so I only have my own experience to go by... it isn't bigotry to say Catholicism and guilt go hand-in-hand IMO. Masturbation, premarital sex, birth control, homosexual feelings, abortion, ORIGINAL SIN... for crying out loud even infants have something to feel guilty about.

I wish people would not cry bigotry every time someone makes an observation they don't agree with. My entire family is practicing Catholic and they joke about "Catholic guilt" all the time.