Standard, Genius, or Spewing? Different PS500+35 Hand

[Foucault]

[ QUOTE ]
if he calls with an A or Q and you hit your flush you're getting paid off a large percentage of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also true if you check.

Paul, do you fire again on a blank river? If you expect Villain to pay off value bets with A or Q when you make your flush, a double barrel bluff is going to cost you some money the times you miss.

[uclabruinz]

Of course I'm not firing at the river if I miss.

[akashra]

Agreed.. The only thing you could still be ahead of at this point that the villain would be holding is the unlikely Ax under the even less likely times where x < 7.

[DonT77]

Yeah, this was definitely a crying (2.9:1) call, but I've seen small to medium pairs here enough to make me think calling wasn't tooooooooo terrible here; others may disagree.

I was mostly wondering what people thought of villian's line - leading ATT for 1/2P with a flush draw on a paired board. From what I can tell - some seem to like it, some don't.

[LearnedfromTV]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this was definitely a crying (2.9:1) call, but I've seen small to medium pairs here enough to make me think calling wasn't tooooooooo terrible here; others may disagree.

I was mostly wondering what people thought of villian's line - leading ATT for 1/2P with a flush draw on a paired board. From what I can tell - some seem to like it, some don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it.

- a large part of your range... {button raise+cbet} not only doesn't connect with that board, it has no hope against something that does. So the bluff part of the semibluff makes sense.

- On the other hand, when you have hit the board, you much more often have an A than a Q, which means it is difficult for you to raise because he could credibly have a Q (so could you, but the catch is that his bet lets him find out if you have one cheaply, your raise wouldn't). He sets his price and is comfortable folding to a raise, because the board is paired, he only has one more card, and you have to be really strong to raise the turn (he has fewer outs, usually, and is occasionally drawig dead). So the semi part of the semibluff makes sense.

On paired boards making a bet that threatens a lot more than it costs is really valuable. I think his turn bet does this.

By the river, it's clear that the hands you could call with are usually marginal (an ace most of the time, maybe high pockets), so he has to bet small and hope you make a crying call.

[LearnedfromTV]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course I'm not firing at the river if I miss.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this.

The turn bet is good because you fold to it pretty often and he has outs, but once you call the turn bet your range narrows considerably and mostly to hands that are calling a blank river.

[akashra]

I like it..

Considering that you could be raising from the button w/a broad range of hands, and would bet regardless of your cards after checked to on the flop.

The turn bet presented the opportunity for the villain to represent a scare card (ace, queen), given a moderately high probability that you were simply trying to steal/follow through mixed with the odds/outs to river his flush, mixed w/the possibility (although higher risk possibility) that he could take you off a better hand even if his draw missed representing something else like Queens/Strong A/Set, etc.. if he felt it (albeit not in this case..)

[DonT77]

Yeah, the more I think about this hand the more I like villain's line for the reasons stated in this thread and the less I like my call ATR. At the time the hand was being played I was confused as to villain's holding [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] . I used up half of my time bank, and finally called - thinking that at least 26% of the time (my neutral EV point) I would see a small to middle pair or mountain air - but given villain's betting sequence and the fact that just about everything came in - being ahead 26%+ was probably overly optimistic (we could have ended the thread after Noah's first post [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]).

Thanks to all those who contributed. There aren't many hands that keep me thinking for days after anymore, but this is one that did.